[LURKERS] PB27 Map & Lurking: Walking in a :weed: wonderland

[GermanJoey]

I don't suppose someone should be a good sport and mention that doing a little player scouting isn't a terrible idea?

I been thinking about that actually... not sure how to go about it without giving too much away, though.

[The Black Sword]

Here's a complete TBS combo ranking. Augustus falls all the way to tier 3. I'm afraid you can probably see my trait bias.

1. Wang Kon of England [Serdoa]
2. Zara of Dutch [VonTao]

3. Julius of Russia [REM]
4. Charlie of Mongolia [AT]
5. Pericles of Germany [Plako]
6. Willem of Celts [Molach]
7. Justinian of Khmer [Yuris]
8. Joao of Eygpt [Wannabe]
9. Toku of Aztecs [Barteq]
10. Sury of Ottomans [Comm]
11. Hannibal of Vikings [Borsche]

12. Washington of Inca [CH]
13.Hammurabi of India [Adrien]
14. Pacal of Persia [Tasunke]
15. Shaka of America [Elkad]
16. Augustus of Sumeria [Dtay]
17. Monty of China [Krill]
18. Nappy of Greece [Ichabod-retep]
19. Alexander of Maya [HAK]
20. Ragnar of Babylon [Nyles]

21. Roosevelt of Mali [Gavagai]
22. Boudica of Japan [Grimace]
23. Stalin of Zulu [Donovan]

Disclaimer: I think the map is relatively generous with happy resources so Cha and the Exp/Otto synergy has less value. I also have no idea about what civ changes Krill made in 3.0 on.

[flugauto]

That's totally worth it.

Yeah, plus it keeps its cheap Observatories. It's a top-tier economic trait now as well still being very solid in the early game. Maybe the strongest single trait other than Org.

CRE is very slow with +1 culture, waiting 10 turns is really slow, would you plant a city with 2nd ring resources and wait 10 turns to get them? Libraries are a midgame thing, but if there is an AGG neighbor, you have to be prepared for an equal tech war, because there is almost no way to outtech AGG in the early game in this mod. Can you afford libraries, even cheap, then? May a couple, but that is not enough to make CRE a good trait.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

That's totally worth it.

Yeah, plus it keeps its cheap Observatories. It's a top-tier economic trait now as well still being very solid in the early game. Maybe the strongest single trait other than Org.

CRE is very slow with +1 culture, waiting 10 turns is really slow, would you plant a city with 2nd ring resources and wait 10 turns to get them? Libraries are a midgame thing, but if there is an AGG neighbor, you have to be prepared for an equal tech war, because there is almost no way to outtech AGG in the early game in this mod. Can you afford libraries, even cheap, then? May a couple, but that is not enough to make CRE a good trait.

You only really need a couple early on. Capital third ring culture gives flexibility in many cases for early settling. I would have preferred this version over what I had in PB18.

[flugauto]

That's totally worth it.

Yeah, plus it keeps its cheap Observatories. It's a top-tier economic trait now as well still being very solid in the early game. Maybe the strongest single trait other than Org.

CRE is very slow with +1 culture, waiting 10 turns is really slow, would you plant a city with 2nd ring resources and wait 10 turns to get them? Libraries are a midgame thing, but if there is an AGG neighbor, you have to be prepared for an equal tech war, because there is almost no way to outtech AGG in the early game in this mod. Can you afford libraries, even cheap, then? May a couple, but that is not enough to make CRE a good trait.

You only really need a couple early on. Capital third ring culture gives flexibility in many cases for early settling. I would have preferred this version over what I had in PB18.

Only a couple (of libraries)? Exactly, the bonus is not good enough. But you like this +1 culture new one more than PB18 that had +2 culture?

[The Black Sword]

CRE is very slow with +1 culture, waiting 10 turns is really slow, would you plant a city with 2nd ring resources and wait 10 turns to get them?

The most common thing is to have 1 first ring resource and then 10t is fine to pick up the 2nd ring ones. And there are some resources/cities that do need a border pop. Having to settle for first ring only is a big handicap.

Clearly the bonus is not going to have full power in every city but that's why it has the libraries. ~3 Libs in the first hundred turns is already a big boost and if you get to the late game almost every city will build one because they're so cheap.

I think it's more powerful than the PB18 version anyway and I certainly think it's more useful than Agg.

EDIT: Another point is that in such a big game, the chances of getting access to good border popping methods in religion or henge is smaller. So Cre is relatively more valuable.

[flugauto]

5 resources start.

[flugauto]

Here's a complete TBS combo ranking. Augustus falls all the way to tier 3. I'm afraid you can probably see my trait bias.

1. Wang Kon of England [Serdoa]
2. Zara of Dutch [VonTao]

3. Julius of Russia [REM]
4. Charlie of Mongolia [AT]
5. Pericles of Germany [Plako]
6. Willem of Celts [Molach]
7. Justinian of Khmer [Yuris]
8. Joao of Eygpt [Wannabe]
9. Toku of Aztecs [Barteq]
10. Sury of Ottomans [Comm]
11. Hannibal of Vikings [Borsche]

12. Washington of Inca [CH]
13.Hammurabi of India [Adrien]
14. Pacal of Persia [Tasunke]
15. Shaka of America [Elkad]
16. Augustus of Sumeria [Dtay]
17. Monty of China [Krill]
18. Nappy of Greece [Ichabod-retep]
19. Alexander of Maya [HAK]
20. Ragnar of Babylon [Nyles]

21. Roosevelt of Mali [Gavagai]
22. Boudica of Japan [Grimace]
23. Stalin of Zulu [Donovan]

Disclaimer: I think the map is relatively generous with happy resources so Cha and the Exp/Otto synergy has less value. I also have no idea about what civ changes Krill made in 3.0 on.

1.
Alexander of Maya [HAK]
Hammurabi of India [Adrien]
Monty of China [Krill]
Shaka of America [Elkad]
Stalin of Zulu [Donovan]
Toku of Aztecs [Barteq]
Washington of Inca [CH]

2.
Augustus of Sumeria [Dtay]
Boudica of Japan [Grimace]
Hannibal of Vikings [Borsche]
Joao of Eygpt [Wannabe]
Justinian of Khmer [Yuris]
Pacal of Persia [Tasunke]
Ragnar of Babylon [Nyles]
Roosevelt of Mali [Gavagai]
Sury of Ottomans [Comm]
Wang Kon of England [Serdoa]

3.
Charlie of Mongolia [AT]
Julius of Russia [REM]
Nappy of Greece [Ichabod-retep]
Pericles of Germany [Plako]
Willem of Celts [Molach]
Zara of Dutch [VonTao]

[GermanJoey]

5 resources start.

ah shit, he wasnt supposed to have that plains cow! also, even not considering that, he can easily get 3 food by moving his settler. we tried really hard to prevent such a scenerio... Krill's "2h plant for one's capital no matter what" is truly a humongous pain in the ass. well, Molach will have a pretty good start then...

[flugauto]

5 resources start.

ah shit, he wasnt supposed to have that plains cow! also, even not considering that, he can easily get 3 food by moving his settler. we tried really hard to prevent such a scenerio... Krill's "2h plant for one's capital no matter what" is truly a humongous pain in the ass. well, Molach will have a pretty good start then...

1NW is a 6 resource city, but no fresh water. Also, the plains incense is a sick tile, everyone who has played FFH knows this. The non-FFH version is even better, because it gives a flat happiness. At least, Moloch has a weak Leader/Civ combo.