RtR 4.1.1.6 Discussion and Download Thread

[Cornflakes]

I think that the current implementation is different than what Plako implemented (the city names in red). I don't think the city names show at all. I do not know if the cities names show if the cities have been scouted.

I was aware of this, but frankly: I think this implementation is better, because it pushes players to scout. It's the same logic as map trading IMO: scouting is fun, uncovering new tiles is something players like to do. Map trading was brought forward because players (IMO) fucking up and not scouting and needed to have that map knowledge to play the game better. I don't think this is the case anymore.

This implementation of hiding city names just causes more busywork in tracking number of cities outside of the game. City founding is clearly visible via mid-turn score increases on PBSpy. The casual player is punished while those who enjoy or have the time for C&D tracking are rewarded.

[superdeath]

I agree with cornflakes.

[Hitru]

I also agree, it's often nice to check how many cities opponents have and it should not require spreadsheet to do that ( we have enough of those already...)

[Charriu]

So first of all removing the ability to see how many cities a player has, was a side effect of limiting trading options. I would propose the following changes:

1. Keep the game option as it is.
   
2. Add a UI element somewhere, showing how many cities every player has (maybe in foreign advisor). This is in fact an even better solution, as nobody has to count the cities anymore, which can be tedious.
   
3. For PB46 and until 2. is implemented you can still not use the game option, keeping everything as it was and rely on the usual etiquette of not trading cities.
   

[superdeath]

3. We dont trade cities as it is, and cant show " hey ill make peace for X city " in the peace agreement anyway, so..

[Krill]

So first of all removing the ability to see how many cities a player has, was a side effect of limiting trading options. I would propose the following changes:

1. Keep the game option as it is.
   
2. Add a UI element somewhere, showing how many cities every player has (maybe in foreign advisor). This is in fact an even better solution, as nobody has to count the cities anymore, which can be tedious.
   
3. For PB46 and until 2. is implemented you can still not use the game option, keeping everything as it was and rely on the usual etiquette of not trading cities.
   

...this requires python, right?

I fucking hate python.

[Charriu]

Don't worry. I will do it and the BUG mod mostly consists of python anyway. So I'm used to it.

[Krill]

I think that the current implementation is different than what Plako implemented (the city names in red). I don't think the city names show at all. I do not know if the cities names show if the cities have been scouted.

I was aware of this, but frankly: I think this implementation is better, because it pushes players to scout. It's the same logic as map trading IMO: scouting is fun, uncovering new tiles is something players like to do. Map trading was brought forward because players (IMO) fucking up and not scouting and needed to have that map knowledge to play the game better. I don't think this is the case anymore.

This implementation of hiding city names just causes more busywork in tracking number of cities outside of the game. City founding is clearly visible via mid-turn score increases on PBSpy. The casual player is punished while those who enjoy or have the time for C&D tracking are rewarded.

I don't think this is an entirely fair point.

You can only use diplomacy to see the names of players cities once you have contact, but you can use civstats or whatever substitute we have for every single player. So in the early game one has to track civstats anyway. It starts to matter more and more as the game progresses, but that means it's based off previous work which, as you imply, may not always be available so a committed player with more free time may attempt to maintain this.

Even if we add an individuals total city count to some screen (Like F4), the above is still going to be true, so I don't see how this doesn't promote the obvious in game solution to the problem: Scout and look for the cities yourself.

[Krill]

Don't worry. I will do it and the BUG mod mostly consists of python anyway. So I'm used to it.

Thank you, and I still hate Python.

[Krill]

Fascism is now unresearchably expensive -- it's costing more than half a million flasks to research in my single-player test game.

Was that deliberate?

RtR_4.1.1.5 is now uploaded with this fixed (and fixed city maintenance text for AGG and IMP leaders).