[Spoiler] Any volunteers for a human sacrifice? Brennus of the Aztecs, by Krill

[Krill]

Depends on what scooty (and I suppose Pingo) do. I don't have an awful lot to build in my hammer cities beyond wealth or units, though I will eventually want to swap over to research builds as I get more gold multipliers down (Read this for why I should do that). Most cities are going to stay on infrastructure even whilst I'm waging war with azza, but if Pingo get frisky I'm going to have to reconsider how much military I need. OTOH, if scooty want to wage war with me, then I trigger a golden age, maybe two, get astro and Chem and focus everything I have on destroying his tech ability.

One strategy I am considering, if I can get Kremlin, is to build universities, observatories, banks, grocers and markets (or which I feel I really need) in a bunch of hammer cities. Whilst teching to Democracy. I use my surfeit of workers to pre-cottage every tile in these cities, and the turn I get Democracy I revolt to Emancipation and finish all of the cottages. After 35 turns those cottages are then towns, I can swap over to US/FS for the town boosts, but keep SP whilst the cottages are growing so I can get rid of my distance maintenance for as long as possible. I doubt I will use this, because it requires more tech than I can reasonable get, but it's something to keep in mind. I'm probably just going to accept that I need Liberalism and Constitution and then I can use seven yield specialists to push my research.

[Krill]

Turn 178 - Pay day loans cost HOW much?

Interesting boat placement. The caravel can move to cut off any movement of the work boat in FS to the crab, and can move onto the fish to see that I have moved the work boat out of the FS, so I can't even be sneaky. But when I finish the fort, I can move the work boat and other boats into the fort and scooty can't attack them, opening up additional transports from MM to the island.

Down Education, Compass, Optics, Engineering, Guilds. Up Music, and I am about 50 population away from being able to use my third and fourth GP to insta-bulb Education with no beakers invested. And those 50 pop points are just normal growth when you have 30 cities and a third of them are 1 pop cities. Not doing that badly.

New offer to Pingo, slightly better %age rate of return, and a happy. If they don't want this deal I'm just giving the gems to Commodore, so he can slave more units. I think I'll be sending something like 6 resources to Commodore that he lacks, if he gets the gems.

Um, hell no. They want me to give them gems, 220 gold and a world map trade showing my 10 new cities to them. Not. Happening. And I'll give the gems to Commodore now.

On we go...

Picking up the plains hill means I'll lose the scientist, but the GS will still pop about T182. The GS is not going to be used until I can either insta-bulb Education...or I figure out a plan to steal Lib after scooty sandbag it.

Still hasn't been built by another player.

More longbows. I feel like I need at least another 15 just to sit on the island. In fact, I feel so exposed that I will not feel hapy until azza is dead, I have his cities and I'm equal on naval tech with scooty.

Chariot are to act as additional happiness in SMS, then I'll build a spear as happiness in SC.

Swap to the galley next turn, and use it to transfer the worker to the silver first, and then come back in time for the galley longbow. Yes, I did just invalidated that 1000 word plan I wrote up for you Seven.

...What to build next...temple and monastery, I suppose.

...Bored with DP.

Looks like i'm going to have to start limiting growth with the lack of tiles to work, but forge next and it should finish on eot T183. Just in time to pound out wealth.

Swap from the hill to the farm...

I think I'm going to turn SMS into a cottage city, working the banana, horse, cown, two mines (one gem) and 11 cottages. Just need to follow the same trick as PRNGG, but will likelty farm one more grassland then just grow onto the cottages. Worker turns are so few now that I can't afford to spend a further 30 worker turns on a few farms when Opportunism, SA and TO are in dire need of the attention.

After the forge has finish, I'm considering building a few workers if I don't go into OR, instead of missionaries. Difficult decision.

More workers...

Just keep growing...and I hope I take the lake back before T185. Not sure if I will get it before then, but I should get it back.

Keep on growing. those cottages.

After the forge get the monastery and temple, and need to consider a stables as CPH is a solid knight producer at 46hpt with Guilds and caste.

If scooty do not throw more units at me, and do not research Astronomy in the next five turns, I do not see the need for more than two caravels from By-Tor, along with two slaved caravels from Axe. They will be enough units to secure the straights and get a sentry out south of hte island and make contact with Brick.

At size seven, because I will certainly grow before I go into slavery, I would definitely be able to slave up to four population, most likely getting out between 90 and 110 hammers into workers, with at least three, maybe four workers produced in that time. That should be enough to get Culture fully improved, do a few tile swaps at Axe and carry on improving By-Tor. But They might not be enough and that is why I'm considering the worker builds at PD.

At size six I would be able to slave out 100 base hammers into two caravels, with the forge I get both of those and then carry the overflow into the light house.

Need 22 base worker turns of improvement here, in addition to five extra population.

Going to steal a farm from Opportunism and then bit the bullet and work the desert hill at size 7 if I do not revolt to slavery immediately.

I might slave a worker from here...

I love junk cities...

If scooty back off I expect to have the crab hooked up first and then the fish. If I get the caravels out and can sit them on the fish though, I'll hook that up first.

MM is just going to be ignored for a couple of dozen turns...

Boring...but I'm not going to chop any workers from here. These forests go into units or infrastructure, nothing else.

Boring.

Will work a flood plains farm to delay the border pop by a turn but get a bit more food.

Pop the goody hut eot and let the barb axe move off the forest towards FSx which is empty.

Chop the work boat then chop the granary.

Chop work boat then granary.

With only two more cities to settle, I'm hoping my expenses will start to level off...and become manageable with court houses.

GNP is starting to improve...but that's mostly the FP. I'm going to have to build wealth in a lot of the cities I'm growing and making workshops for, and libraries in a the decent commerce cities.

And my cities are all growing, except for four of them (Crapital, PRNGG, GNAP and arguably RVC). Anyone think I can get it up to 27%?

[Ozzee]

(Read this for why I should do that).

Interesting, thanks for the link.

[Ozzee]

One strategy I am considering, if I can get Kremlin, is to build universities, observatories, banks, grocers and markets (or which I feel I really need) in a bunch of hammer cities. Whilst teching to Democracy. I use my surfeit of workers to pre-cottage every tile in these cities, and the turn I get Democracy I revolt to Emancipation and finish all of the cottages. After 35 turns those cottages are then towns, I can swap over to US/FS for the town boosts, but keep SP whilst the cottages are growing so I can get rid of my distance maintenance for as long as possible. I doubt I will use this, because it requires more tech than I can reasonable get, but it's something to keep in mind. I'm probably just going to accept that I need Liberalism and Constitution and then I can use seven yield specialists to push my research.

Couple of Questions:
- why do you need Kremlin for this to work? Rushbuy the buildings or compensate for the loss of hammers in case you need to build an army later on in those cities?
- what would roughly be the time spam between getting SP and teching democracy?
- is growing the cities on +1 food of workshops in SP an important part of this strategy or rather a benefitial side effect?

[Krill]

Couple of Questions:
- why do you need Kremlin for this to work? Rushbuy the buildings or compensate for the loss of hammers in case you need to build an army later on in those cities?
- what would roughly be the time spam between getting SP and teching democracy?
- is growing the cities on +1 food of workshops in SP an important part of this strategy or rather a benefitial side effect?

Kremlin makes fully improved towns either 2/1/7 or 1/2/7 tiles, which with all of the beaker and gold modifiers and Kremlin are almost as good as workshops with all production modifiers. However, they are significantly better for paying the bills and research, but if you don't get Kremlin it is much weaker at production. Numbers wise in an empire that is making 1500gpt at max gold, Kremlin makes 250hpt (1500g=500h without Kremlin, 750h with).

Also, Kremlin is at Communism, a tech I need for the SP civic anyway, and I want to use SP until I have a billion towns to work anyway, and immediately after SM, a tech I need to give me greater known tech boni...it's looking like my tech path is finally gaining clarity.

I have no idea how long it would take for me to reach Democracy after getting Communism. Too dependent on tech trading. I can not beeline to Communism, simply because a beeline is something like 120 turns if I don't build wealth, and I can only build wealth when I do not need to build units to kill azza or defend myself.

Workshops do not give +1 food. Workshops are a drag on growth because they cost food to fund their usage. But I'm currently growing all of my cities to work the tiles I have, so the extra food from SP and biology will just be used to work specialists.

[Ozzee]

Workshops do not give +1 food. Workshops are a drag on growth because they cost food to fund their usage. But I'm currently growing all of my cities to work the tiles I have, so the extra food from SP and biology will just be used to work specialists.

I was referring to the extra food from SP. The idea was that one could also use this extra food to convert some farms to cottages and let them mature before democracy comes in. But I guess more growth and working specialists wins over that, also considering extra culture from specialists for defensive purposes.

[Krill]

The simplest thing to do there is to just workshop over all of the farms. That will let me get rid of at least 80% of the farms in the empire. I will not use cottages until I can use Emancipation because of the inefficient growth and use of civics as cottages will mature at different times. 2/0/5 tiles are not something I'm particularly interested in working compared to 2/4 or 3/2 tiles.

With the right civic set up specialists rival towns for output, the only problem is increased costs and having to deal with the higher happy and health caps needed to support the extra population. And getting the food to grow that pop in the first place.

[Ozzee]

The simplest thing to do there is to just workshop over all of the farms. That will let me get rid of at least 80% of the farms in the empire. I will not use cottages until I can use Emancipation because of the inefficient growth and use of civics as cottages will mature at different times. 2/0/5 tiles are not something I'm particularly interested in working compared to 2/4 or 3/2 tiles.

With the right civic set up specialists rival towns for output, the only problem is increased costs and having to deal with the higher happy and health caps needed to support the extra population. And getting the food to grow that pop in the first place.

That makes a lot of sense. Specs should give a nice output with REP/?/Caste/SP/FR. And CrazyPlantHand would be even more beastier with two more workshops.

[Krill]

FR probably won't happen now I have UoS and Sistine and need a state religion, except for the 100% time on the binary slider. The unknown civic is either Bureaucracy or Environmentalism, the civic that gives +1 gold to specialists, and +1 commerce to farms and pastures.

[Ozzee]

FR probably won't happen now I have UoS and Sistine and need a state religion, except for the 100% time on the binary slider. The unknown civic is either Bureaucracy or Environmentalism, the civic that gives +1 gold to specialists, and +1 commerce to farms and pastures.

I keep forgetting that this is RB mod...