RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[Maniac Marshall]

One last note/thought before bed. We do only have 15 workers, but, that's being addressed. Pride Rock is 2 turn building one (I refuse to whip those poor, slow breeding citizens anymore unless it's an emergency) and interestingly, in 2 turns, both Temminck and Feng Shui will have 34 hammers into temples just as they grow a pop point... I think you know what that means, so, yeah, we should be more ok on workers in 3 turns, though, I don't forsee any more for a bit, at least from Temminck, which will need to grow back from size 8.

Ref: Sent you an email about something I'd rather not discuss in public, as it's not my place.

[RefSteel]

in 2 turns, both Temminck and Feng Shui will have 34 hammers into temples just as they grow a pop point... I think you know what that means

Isn't it normally better to whip just *before* growing a pop point? I *would* suggest growing both cities closer to their *next* pop growth, working on another build (Grocer? University?) before switching back and whipping ... except that I suspect this of being yet another special case. Poor, neglected Temminck might have too few improved tiles to work, and (on a related note) we need those workers ASAP.

[RefSteel]

Couple things:

1) I got the e-mail. Best of luck to Morgan!

2) One other thing I forgot to mention, from way back when you made your T125 report: The reason you couldn't get the screenies to line up was that civ screenies DON'T LINE UP! There are weird perspective and shading artifacts at the edges of the screen no matter what you do (even with the satellite camera enabled, though I find that helps a lot). There are sort of ways around it (or of dealing with it, really) but mostly they aren't worth the effort. The fault line was no problem.

[RefSteel]

On HV: Bleah - I was right the first time. We do NOT need to work a plains tile there (with or without a farm) at all. We do NOT need to work an engineer there if we don't want to. In other words: If we want, we CAN continue working no specialists and no hammer tiles through the turn the settler is finished. We will complete the settler in one turn, with overflow, either way. I'll post a new spreadsheet later today if I can - the problem with the old one? I remembered to take the turn's food surplus out of the "new" food box on the turn the settler was made, but forgot to add it to the "new hammers" box instead!

[RefSteel]

Updated Hukawng Valley spreadsheet:



Now in the new hammer reporting format.

And with food-for-settler taken into account.
(And before it's asked:
No, I did not apply the forge multiplier to the food.)

We can still run an engineer if you'd like, but it's not needed.

Also, the sixth fp can be cottaged if you want.

And there's no near-term need to farm a plains tile at HV.

[Maniac Marshall]

As it's now T129, I think I'll just stick with the E for now. I won't work the plains tile however, which couldn't have been farmed in time anyhow. I'm currently looking at Temminck and FS to see if there is an efficient way to whip them, because I think they actually both have one improved tile they could use but are not. Balacing with 3-6 lost worker turns (while waiting to whip) and lost hammers. I'd rather wait in temmincks case if possible anyhow.

[Maniac Marshall]

I think we need to decide if we intend to settle Green or not. With the 2nd Mali/Inca war to kill a settler pair over in their FP region on the other side of their lands, it occurs their next attempt will likely be to settle a city right where their axe has stood for several turns. If we want to settle there, we probably need to send the whipped settler THERE, to get it in time, or, we can try to talk to Inca about it, though we honestly have noting to give them for that spot. Only negotiation tactic I see we could use with them is something like: Settle there and we plant a city and use the Artist to culture bomb you out of existence.

What do you think?

[Maniac Marshall]

We're going to be getting a Taoist missionary from Cynheard shortly. HOPEFULLY he does not fail to spread the religion, since we have no open cities for it to spread to. I'm thinking we should spread it to Fierias, which can bang out a 1 turn monastery when it's done with sankore. We'll need the monastery to spread it if we go to FR, which I'm becoming a bit dubious about now.

Pride Rock is the only place with Judaism, so I think we should build a monastery there after the settler, so we can spread Judaism from there.

Similar story with Bhuddism and Feng Shui.

Obviously, until we're ready to start drafting, or making lots of military, we should stick with OR, but it would be nice to have FR available.

We're researching Economics now, and should get the free merchant, which should be used to help the alliance, frankly. I do think we should keep a Great Person back for a GA/free civis swap so we can go to Nationalism and draft a bunch of rifles eventually...

To that end, I think we should also start slipping in theaters everywhere as circumstances permit.

Next build ideas:

PR = Jewish Monastery (so we have one place that can make missionaries if we swap from OR)

Temminck = University? It's a 14 turn build via hammers... obviously thats too slow. We'll have to at least double whip it. I don't think it has the tiles to tripple whip it, would grow back too slow, although, it could possibly borrow the FP farms... so we might as well get started on it. (This is a build started while waiting to whip the temple/settler)

Feng Shui = Bhuddist Monastery? We may not want to spread this religion far and wide yet, but we'll want to eventually. Best to have somewhere that can. Might want to set it up so it could be double whipped into a settler eventually too, though... So maybe a turn of that and a turn of... what?

Kilrah = The place now makes 40 hammers on units. We need both knights and Pikes. I'd like to spend the next 12 turns making 8 pikes... too much? Maybe the next 9 turns making 6 pikes? I think we should make these while we can. I will gladly take input on the unit mix made from here however.

HV= I think the plan here is pretty detailed.

The rest of the cities are still building graineries, so no need to think much there... yet.

I wanted to spend more time on a micro plan, but I got busy talking to Kyan, so this is it for now.

[RefSteel]

As it's now T129, I think I'll just stick with the E for now. I won't work the plains tile however, which couldn't have been farmed in time anyhow.

Sounds good; you can safely switch in mid-stream if you want, as well. At this point, as long as we're working the corn and all the improved floodplains every turn, HV will be fine. The more you work the engineer, the less food it will have later on to grow while working other specialists, but the more overflow it'll have from the settler (I suggest putting the overflow into a theater).

I think we need to decide if we intend to settle Green or not.

I think if we do want to settle green, we need workers and military escorts there (including at least a pike or two) by the time we plant it. I don't like the idea of threatening people (e.g. with an Artist bomb). Then again, I haven't tried to impose my diplomatic style or "scruples" on the team thus far, and don't want or intend to start now; I'm happy just playing around with tile assignments and things. And in that vein: Note that we can get ANOTHER one-turn settler out of HV (regardless of where the first one goes) about 7-8 turns after the first, though working merchants might delay things a bit.

We'll need the monastery to spread it if we go to FR, which I'm becoming a bit dubious about now.

Emphasis mine. Also note we're unlikely to want to go into FR unless/until all our religions are already spread to all our cities.

[RefSteel]

As I mentioned above, I'm not sure if delaying the whip until we grow is the best move at Temminck and HV right now, simply because we desperately need workers. [EDIT: If two of the improved tiles one of the cities would be working while it grows are plains farms, it should be whipped immediately, because 2hpt from a temple is as good as 2hpt from a pair of plains farms. (The four food merely feeds the guys working the tiles.) Even if this is not the case, it might be worth whipping as long as we're not whipping away resource tiles or fps.]

We're researching Economics now, and should get the free merchant, which should be used to help the alliance, frankly.

Absolutely.

I do think we should keep a Great Person back for a GA/free civis swap so we can go to Nationalism and draft a bunch of rifles eventually...

We'll cross that bridge when we actually get a great person, I think.

To that end, I think we should also start slipping in theaters everywhere as circumstances permit.

Yes.

Next build ideas:

I have to start work, but I'll try to address these later if you wish.

I got busy talking to Kyan

Lucky!