[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[SevenSpirits]

Too bad he didn't want to cooperate... but awesome! Can't wait to see the screenshots.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 166:

Starting off with a splashscreen and an event:



Losing half of Kwythellar’s food stores (29 food?) is not an option, so I grimace and stump up the cash.

Turnlog says nothing, but with the save came this comment:

Project: Ivory Tower reaches its long awaited conclusion.

And to prove it, Chestnut Roast now has a pretty glowing-ball thingamajig.



Which means he probably received a GSci from Arcane Lore in his capital also, good for him.
But we don’t care about that stuff do we?

In the South, all hawks are recalled from winter flying lessons.
One has already been used, that means three are left.
The next hawk visits Feiss Mabdon and tries to peek at the Calabim capital.



Unfortunately it’s too distant by one tile, but I do get to see a little stack of catapults sitting on the hill behind Acaia (just out of vision from a hawk from Zaonce). Sneaky Bob, very sneaky.
Both Acaia and Morr’ta’nar have a vampire feeding in the city (promoted Death II and Mobility I already).

The final two hawks land at ATM and Gaene and fly South.

That gives me a picture of the overall Hippus army:

And just leaves me to do this:

First up are the non-Raider CAs.
Agrius promotes to Cover and clears the fortified archer on the road to ATM (need to protect him after, that fort has a Goblin in it ready to leave).



Next up Abas promotes Flanking and attacks the lone archer in Urgortheth.
He survives at ~0.5 health, and managed to do some damage to the garrison.



A unit that survives to withdraw from combat receives 1xp.
Using the 4xp CAs first to soften up top defenders means that if they survive, they can then promote next turn and heal up faster.
I am of course bringing along a Courageous Stonewarden medic too.

Next up, Ixion promoted Combat I and was sent in at 90%:



I wasn’t sure if I was going to keep Urgortheth or not, but the market with a hireable merchant persuaded me.

Which then leaves me to bring down some of the 4xp Raider CAs and throw them at ATM:





I was fortunate there, winning the coin flips for those CAs to survive.
But like I said, live or die, in all the sims I did they were virtually guaranteed to do some damage.

I’m theorising slightly here, but I think the dual strength values for archers (3/5) makes them a little more flimsy than would first appear.
Possibly it’s because taking any damage reduces their strength proportionally more than a str 5/5 unit would take on defense(?). For example, you can’t get a str 3/4.5 archer, the two values decrease symmetrically, so it would have to be a 2.7/4.5 archer.
Not sure if that makes sense or if it’s right, but what I found in the sims I ran was that it was unusual for a defending archer to take no damage whatsoever.

I then had a choice, either bring down the poisoned str 5.9/6 Lycopes and take on the injured Hippus hero archer in a ~75-80ish% fight, or play it safe and send in another softener.
I played it safe (boo hiss) but the outcome means that it probably wouldn’t have mattered anyway.



The red circled archer portrait means that one of the archers got in a defensive strike before combat started, but only did 1% damage.

After that it was cleanup time, with Cover CAs Lycopes and Echeclus coming down to mop up the two remaining archers, Beefy was given the task of finishing the lone catapult.



Which led to this:



I had intended to raze ATM, but as you’ll start to see, I’m a sucker for specialist buildings.
The Sage Council (4b scientist!) plus an Academy for quick border expansions to claim the nearby Corn (means I can get my Fish back from Selrahc) and mana node all made me change my mind.
Additionally, I’m not sure Iskender can retake ATM, while razing it would also increase the AC counter. I will be looking into getting a Life Adept to Sanctify ruins soon, but that could be a bit of a hassle.

After that, three non-Raider CAs remaining unmoved, so they were brought down.
Arktus promoted Combat I and took out the lone archer guarding a worker 2NE of ATM (kept the worker), another moved to cover him, while Priapus is defending the damaged stack 1NE of ATM.

At which point it was time to deploy the Raider CAs again, this time the two promo ones utilising Sprint.
1SE of ATM was a small stack of one archer and three horsemen.
Mimas took on the archer first at 95% odds, at which point three more CAs sprinted to mop up the horsemen at 98%.
One of the horsemen withdrew and ran away at 0.9 health, so he’s ignored for the moment.



There was one warrior guarding Radonnar, Combat I + Shock Demoleon walked over him (not helped by the city base desert tile), to give me another Sage Council settlement.



Factor in the RoK religion present, the nearby Wines and the visibility given by the peaks, meant I kept that city too.
But really, that’s the last one!
Building a fort on the hill 1S could be a smart thing to do.


Dictys then cleaned up the skittish horseman for 1xp, and I sprinted both Abas (at Urgortheth) and some of the injured stack outside ATM to move them into the nearest cities.
Rocky the Stonewarden moved to cover Agrius outside the Goblin fort, next turn he’ll reach the city.
Used Sirona on Echeclus, so he’s nearly a full health door knocker for next turn.



That leaves the problem of Conrond Mor.
It’s a natural last stand city – with 30% defense, located on a hill, and already has a couple of archers fortified inside plus a catapult and radiant guard.
So I think it’s time the Hill Giants got involved.

The worker cleared the jungle for Moe to move down, Jumbo, Curly and Amycus (C3 Cover non-Raider) joined him on the hill.



They’re all at least 2 move, so next turn will run over to the hill 1N of Conrond Mor and start bombarding.
Hill Giants can remove 15% defense per turn, so unless Iskender rushes walls, they could nuke it all.

To the right, Chromis is back in Zaonce, while Sareln’s Hunter is being a cheeky bugger and has returned.
Needless to say, the next couple of CAs built are heading over to Riedquat and Zaonce to prevent any opportunistic attacks from either Sareln or Bob.
Rosebud is manning the fort in Riedquat for the time being.
Selrahc’s Stonewarden continued heading North to Silent Night, stopping only to cast SoF on some poor Illian misfortunates on the way.


Final combat log and military advisor:



And here’s an overview of the Hippus land:



There’s approx two decently promoted archers in each of the Eastern cities,
Conrond Mor still contains the three archers, one catapult and radiant guard.


Declaring war on Iskender lost me happy in the Wines and Gems, although capturing Urgortheth meant I reclaimed the Gems.
Ending turn completed three CAs, Way of the Wicked researched.



Caledor has been switched to building the Guild of Hammers, to be completed in two more turns, base production is 127 hammers.



And if you were wondering about that unhappy face at Kwythellar, yes that is war weariness striking already.



Despite not yet losing a unit, the size of the Kurio cities combined with the palace +25% WW means I’ve already got +1 unhappy everywhere.

Better make this fast.

[pocketbeetle]

Diplo:

Long chat with Selrahc yesterday, occurring before Iskender and I talked.

(11:54:51 AM) pocketbeetle: Slight problem - just letting you know
(11:55:11 AM) pocketbeetle: Cull delaying the turn yesterday screwed with my schedule, still trying to sort out a small matter with the Hippus
(11:55:19 AM) pocketbeetle: Hoping to chat with him tonight
(11:55:26 AM) pocketbeetle: but hit me with anything else you've got
(11:55:35 AM) pocketbeetle: can Gscis be used in other players cities?
(11:55:52 AM) Selrahc: I'm pretty sure it can, yeah.
(11:56:11 AM) Selrahc: From the discussion in the aborted pitboss.
(11:56:35 AM) pocketbeetle: I did a test (with AIs admittedly, not a multiplayer hotseat) and couldn't
(11:56:38 AM) Selrahc: Priests can make shrines, so I'd be surprised if the scientist couldn't.
(11:56:46 AM) Selrahc: Hmm.
(11:56:47 AM) pocketbeetle: let me go check for a sec
(11:56:51 AM) pocketbeetle: let's find out for sure
(11:56:57 AM) Selrahc: Yeah. Good idea.
(12:07:03 PM) pocketbeetle: okay not looking good
(12:07:09 PM) Selrahc: Darn.
(12:07:15 PM) pocketbeetle: I can't make it happen, here's a screenshot:
(12:07:32 PM) pocketbeetle: http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/81/civ4...t0008c.jpg
(12:07:45 PM) pocketbeetle: if you can think of something im doing wrong, let me know
(12:08:08 PM) Selrahc: Hum. No. Guess we can't do it. Pity. I'd have loved to have some entropy mana.
(12:08:37 PM) pocketbeetle: It's okay, I'll get it eventually, just will have to pop the GSci/GPro naturally
(12:08:46 PM) Selrahc: Yeah
(12:08:48 PM) pocketbeetle: and we can still walk the GSci over there, worth trying
(12:09:08 PM) Selrahc: Yeah, I guess.
(12:09:20 PM) pocketbeetle: Assuming he was born in Silent Night (?) its only 2 moves
(12:09:44 PM) Selrahc: He should be... Great people born through techs normally span in the capital.
(12:09:52 PM) Selrahc: *spawn
(12:10:04 PM) pocketbeetle: yup, sucks though ey?
(12:10:33 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. Hope we're just missing something.
(12:10:38 PM) pocketbeetle: But to confirm, yes I'm definitely aiming to get rust soon for vs vampires
(12:11:19 PM) pocketbeetle: so what were your thoughts on the other stuff? Was that your main worry, starting a 4v2 by announcing it out loud in the tech thread
(12:11:37 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. That was the main thing.
(12:12:03 PM) Selrahc: I mean, if we seem to be working together too much Iskender might think his only chance is to team up with Bob.
(12:12:52 PM) pocketbeetle: True, but then saying that, Iskender never really mentions you in chats. Doesn't mention a lot tbh
(12:13:18 PM) Selrahc: I've had a few recently that were interesting.
(12:13:26 PM) Selrahc: He isn't overly scared about vampires frex
(12:13:40 PM) pocketbeetle: then he's a fool
(12:13:46 PM) Selrahc: Exact words "They've come too late"
(12:14:12 PM) Selrahc: I think he might be overestimating sun mana a little.
(12:14:20 PM) Selrahc: /blinding light
(12:14:26 PM) pocketbeetle: mmm, that's a valid point. Bob has been horrendously slow reaching them, but even so, with Bob as his neighbour he really does not seem to be applying the right degree of concern for my eyes
(12:15:14 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah, blinding light is nice, but:
a) +20% resist chance
b)Trivial matter for vampires to get resist magic for another +20% resist (?)
(12:16:05 PM) Selrahc: Plus the vampires are going to be moving very fast. They can split up and recombine quite easily.
(12:16:13 PM) pocketbeetle: speed 3 movement yup
(12:16:18 PM) pocketbeetle: 6 on any roads
(12:16:22 PM) Selrahc: Yeah
(12:16:41 PM) Selrahc: If Bob moves them right, it will be hard to blind a sizable stack.
(12:16:59 PM) Selrahc: The other issue he brought up is that Bob has nowhere near enough mana to fully utilize spectres.
(12:17:16 PM) Selrahc: Which is pretty true. I think he only has 1 source.
(12:17:29 PM) Selrahc: If he had 4 or 5 it would be a lot scarier.
(12:17:35 PM) pocketbeetle: str 6, guaranteed to have the Combat 5 promo so str 12.6, throwaway summons, regeneration for fast healing, but what scares me more is the cover/shock/formation -80% promotions
(12:17:56 PM) pocketbeetle: True, but I don't have full view of his backlines yet, do you?
(12:18:04 PM) pocketbeetle: does he have any mana back there?
(12:18:34 PM) Selrahc: I traded maps with Sareln, doesn't look like there are any mana back there.
(12:18:43 PM) Selrahc: I could go check.
(12:18:54 PM) pocketbeetle: keep in mind the spectres will still be getting empoer V from the vamps combat promos. They're still either str 3 + 50% or str 4+50% = str 6
(12:19:12 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. Still decent.
(12:19:18 PM) Selrahc: Just not overpowering.
(12:19:50 PM) Selrahc: As far as the cover/shock promos go. I was thinking of developing rangers to avoid that.
(12:20:05 PM) pocketbeetle: Good move, recon are always good for defending
(12:20:23 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. Plus I should be able to give them poison blades as well.
(12:20:46 PM) Selrahc: Sareln owes me some nature mana.
(12:21:11 PM) pocketbeetle: sec
(12:21:46 PM) pocketbeetle: thought so. Rathas get +50% vs recon units
(12:22:01 PM) Selrahc: Interesting.
(12:22:31 PM) Selrahc: Still going to be mainly mage based though, so it isn't that scary.
(12:22:41 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah sareln owes me one loan of mind mana also. Not sure if I'll ever get it now, with Bob acting squirly
(12:23:22 PM) Selrahc: Probably best to get it sooner rather than later..
(12:23:55 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah no worries, I'll pick up a few magic techs sooner or later, so maybe build my own
(12:24:01 PM) pocketbeetle: So anyway. What your other thoughts?
(12:24:24 PM) Selrahc: On the topic of magic techs. You planning on getting sorcery any time soon?
(12:24:50 PM) Selrahc: Because if not, I'm happy to second a few mages over to your fronts to lend some magical support.
(12:25:31 PM) pocketbeetle: If Bob suddenly declares war on me, I'd definitely appreciate that.
I've got plans to head to Sorcery soon, but first want to pick up some of the earlier techs
(12:25:41 PM) Selrahc: Alright.
(12:25:59 PM) pocketbeetle: I've only got one or two adepts atm, definitely need to produce a few more
(12:26:18 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. Seed a few mages for later.
(12:26:32 PM) Selrahc: Generally good practice, even when not going mage heavy.
(12:26:50 PM) pocketbeetle: I know. It's something I wrote in my thread. I'm always a little slow going KotE and building adepts
(12:26:56 PM) pocketbeetle: Sareln is being annoying btw
(12:27:04 PM) Selrahc: Yeah?
(12:27:14 PM) Selrahc: Not talked to him since they dye thing.
(12:27:30 PM) Selrahc: In which he was pretty helpful.
(12:28:08 PM) Selrahc: Are you being annoyed by hawk flights still or is this something else?
(12:28:16 PM) pocketbeetle: I keep chasing off his hunter who is flying hawks over my cities, using HN units, and then he keeps coming back
(12:28:45 PM) Selrahc: Heh.
(12:28:59 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah I've been watching the culture on that Dyes tile.
He could have been really helpful by giving me the Dyes, and then me giving you the Fine Clothes, but nevermind ^^
(12:29:28 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. The tile is coming back under my control quite quickly though.
(12:29:45 PM) Selrahc: It's at around 30%. Should be maybe 2 turns.
(12:30:20 PM) pocketbeetle: What are your thoughts on Cull or Sareln btw? Do you have any plans at all for 'visiting' their cities? Has Cull's vassalisation changed anything for you?
(12:30:46 PM) pocketbeetle: Because any interest I had in helping Cull is now officially gone
(12:31:16 PM) Selrahc: Well my current priority is settling the last of the free land in my sphere of influence.
(12:31:28 PM) Selrahc: I was planning on turning my attention on Cull after that.
(12:31:47 PM) Selrahc: But the situation with Bob will probably come to a boil before that.
(12:32:43 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay, good to know. Because I'm thinking along those lines also. That's why I asked in the email
(12:33:34 PM) Selrahc: At the moment.. I'm getting some free mana and some trade routes. Fairly useful, but if he was to suffer an accident I'd not be too tearful.
(12:34:28 PM) pocketbeetle: Same. My main concern atm is Iskender, hopefully that will get resolved this evening.
(12:35:24 PM) Selrahc: From my last chat I'm thinking he isn't that friendly with Bob.
(12:35:37 PM) Selrahc: But isn't worrying about him too much.
(12:35:45 PM) pocketbeetle: go on, I'm interested
(12:36:00 PM) Selrahc: Well, he is still scared of your airships.
(12:36:08 PM) Selrahc: To the point where he said
(12:36:26 PM) Selrahc: "I'd happily forgo Chalid if I got an airship or two out of it"
(12:37:09 PM) Selrahc: But I don't think you need to worry about him teaming up with Bob to dogpile you.
(12:37:29 PM) pocketbeetle: Hmm. Do you think he really is scared? Or is he using them as an excuse and trying to get you worried about me?
Does he talk about me attacking you quite often?
(12:38:13 PM) Selrahc: He hasn't actually brought up attacking you, or you attacking me.
(12:38:50 PM) Selrahc: I'd say its partially actual concern, partially an attempt to drive a wedge.
(12:39:27 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay. Good to know. And that latter part worries me
(12:41:22 PM) Selrahc: If he wants to become one of the leaders, he is going to need a big war that he isn't hurt by to unfold.
(12:42:11 PM) Selrahc: So it makes sense that he doesn't want us being too peaceful.
(12:42:35 PM) pocketbeetle: well that's just the thing and what concerns me. Let's run through this:
(12:42:54 PM) pocketbeetle: the 'big war' on the horizon is quite blatantly Bob and me it would seem.
(12:43:06 PM) pocketbeetle: Do you know what the deal I offered him was?
(12:43:11 PM) Selrahc: No
(12:44:22 PM) pocketbeetle: I offered a military alliance vs the calabim to him. In return for simply participating, ie I would be the major muscle and probably lose the most troops, I offered him everything.
I told him he could have any and all land/cities taken from the Calabim
(12:44:30 PM) pocketbeetle: He simply had to participate
(12:44:50 PM) pocketbeetle: I woul gain nothing, no cities/land, all i would gain is a bunch of dead troops
(12:44:59 PM) pocketbeetle: And I can't get stronger, I'm maxed out on cities
(12:45:06 PM) Selrahc: Hm. Interesting. Sounds like a good deal for him.
(12:45:24 PM) pocketbeetle: I think it's a BLINDING offer. Best ever offered in a pbem
(12:45:32 PM) pocketbeetle: and he's turned it down....
(12:45:44 PM) Selrahc: So either he thinks you're being duplicitous, or he has something going with Bob.
(12:46:03 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm giving him one final chance to accept this evening, but he keeps telling me he wants to be 'neutral'
(12:46:12 PM) pocketbeetle: and my thoughts on that are...
(12:46:41 PM) pocketbeetle: going back to your war which he doesn't get hurt in. Maybe he wants to wait and see what happens between bob and I, at which point he jumps to the winning side
(12:46:59 PM) Selrahc: Yes.
(12:47:02 PM) pocketbeetle: Not sure I can accept that risk
(12:47:21 PM) Selrahc: Well, the answer to that is to be on the winning side.
(12:47:50 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm thinking of a different answer to be honest. But we'll see
(12:48:06 PM) Selrahc: Interesting offer.
(12:48:16 PM) Selrahc: Actually brings up an idea.
(12:48:39 PM) Selrahc: You know Gibbon Goetia's impersonate leader ability?
(12:48:58 PM) pocketbeetle: yup, ...and we legistlated against it in the startup thread
(12:49:07 PM) pocketbeetle: I brought it up specifically
(12:49:08 PM) Selrahc: We did? Ah. Blah.
(12:49:18 PM) Selrahc: I was thinking it was pretty cheap anyway.
(12:49:21 PM) pocketbeetle: It's quite an amusing post, where is it...
(12:50:08 PM) pocketbeetle: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=144
(12:50:47 PM) pocketbeetle: So yeah, off the table
(12:51:06 PM) Selrahc: lol. Yeah. That was pretty much what I was considering. I'd agree with it being off the table as well.
(12:51:30 PM) Selrahc: It would be pretty gutting to be taken out of the game like that.
(12:51:41 PM) pocketbeetle: Yup, don't worry! There's plenty of other screwy stuff we can do
(12:52:01 PM) pocketbeetle: Oh
(12:52:11 PM) pocketbeetle: on that vein, I was thinking undercouncil
(12:52:19 PM) pocketbeetle: and the free GSci
(12:52:25 PM) Selrahc: I can't join.
(12:52:34 PM) pocketbeetle: You're evil, it's a civic
(12:52:40 PM) Selrahc: Can't research the tech.
(12:52:45 PM) pocketbeetle: ahhhh, sucks!
(12:52:51 PM) Selrahc: Yes. Definitely.
(12:52:55 PM) Selrahc: Recent change too.
(12:53:21 PM) pocketbeetle: Should be able to, just make it so you can't found the religion or get the Nightwatch
(12:53:57 PM) Selrahc: A lot of the modmods put undercouncil and overcouncil at way of the wicked/way of the wise.
(12:54:08 PM) Selrahc: But they also tech limit the resolutions.
(12:54:13 PM) pocketbeetle: Hmm. Little bit early then though
(12:54:41 PM) pocketbeetle: I suppose the resolutions aren't overpowered
(12:55:11 PM) Selrahc: Well... considering how early you can get the tech? they're a little too good.
(12:55:23 PM) Selrahc: But they do need someone else to have the tech too.
(12:55:38 PM) Selrahc: Which in an AI game is its own limitation on speed.
(12:55:44 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah. Maybe increase the beaker count for the two 'Ways', say double it, then it's reasonable
(12:56:09 PM) pocketbeetle: Problem is, then you screw with Order and AV founding
(12:56:31 PM) Selrahc: And other stuff too. Prophecy of Ragnarok. Slavery civic.
(12:56:55 PM) Selrahc: Both of which can be things you base your entire game around.
(12:57:05 PM) pocketbeetle: Yup. Btw, Iskender thinks the Governor mansion hammer bonus isn't counted in the Mfg Gooods grapgs/ demos. I think he's right
(12:57:21 PM) pocketbeetle: Mens Bob's been kicking us all in hammers for quite a while
(12:57:28 PM) Selrahc: It would certainly explain why Bob is so low on that.
(12:58:35 PM) pocketbeetle: Getting back to an MDP. What are we saying if one of us declares war? Will we be helping each other defend in that case, or will it only be in cases of another player declaring war on us?
(12:59:30 PM) Selrahc: I think I'd prefer it to be only in the case of being declared upon.
(12:59:48 PM) Selrahc: But taking it more meaningfully than that.
(1:00:08 PM) Selrahc: So that you can declare on someone if you want the first strike..
(1:00:37 PM) Selrahc: But based around being the defender rather than the agressor in general.
(1:00:39 PM) pocketbeetle: To be honest, this line of thinking is a little redundant. There's only one player we're worried about and that's Bob isn't it really?
So long as we agree that we help defending against the Vamps, we can handle another player attacking
(1:00:51 PM) pocketbeetle: *any other
(1:00:56 PM) Selrahc: Yes.
(1:01:24 PM) Selrahc: So just an agreement to help in defence against vampires.
(1:01:45 PM) Selrahc: If you want to go declare on Cull or something, that doesn't affect this.
(1:01:52 PM) Selrahc: (Hypothetically)
(1:02:14 PM) pocketbeetle: Sound fair to me. Although I guess now, declaring on cull means declaring on Bob also
(1:02:26 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.
(1:03:09 PM) pocketbeetle: Not good. But yeah, if suddenly everyone except Bob declares on you, I'll definitely help you out
(1:03:15 PM) pocketbeetle: umm
(1:03:48 PM) pocketbeetle: I'll draft out some silly lol document at some point, but I don't want to make you commit until I know the score with Iskender
(1:04:01 PM) Selrahc: Alright. Sounds fair.
(1:04:06 PM) pocketbeetle: Like I said, hoped that would be yesterday, hopefully get sorted today
(1:04:28 PM) pocketbeetle: Basically: (insert silly confidentiality clause here - say yes you agree)
(1:04:51 PM) Selrahc: Confidentiality: yes.
(1:05:09 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm going to give him one final chance at taking my offer, I'm expecting him to say no sigh. So I'll then offer him a long term nap
(1:05:39 PM) pocketbeetle: I can't go to war vs Bob while having him sitting on my border un NAP'd
(1:05:53 PM) pocketbeetle: If he says no, I'll have to consider my options
(1:05:59 PM) Selrahc: Right.
(1:06:34 PM) Selrahc: I'm not willing to commit to helping you wipe out Iskender. But I'll remain neutral if a conflict occurs in that area.
(1:06:44 PM) pocketbeetle: Sounds utterly fair
(1:06:59 PM) pocketbeetle: If they really are working together and Bob declares on me?
(1:07:13 PM) Selrahc: Then I'll help out.
(1:07:44 PM) pocketbeetle: done deal. Let's hope Iskender takes the nap. He may seriously just want to stay out of any conflict
(1:08:00 PM) pocketbeetle: I can't help wondering if he should build the GLighthouse
(1:08:00 PM) Selrahc: I hope thats the case.
(1:08:05 PM) pocketbeetle: He has a lot of coast
(1:08:25 PM) Selrahc: Might be good.
(1:08:47 PM) Selrahc: On the other hand.. might not be.
(1:09:48 PM) Selrahc: He'd have to work it out. But without intercontinental trade it won't be as powerful as it can be.
(1:10:27 PM) pocketbeetle: True, but with all your cities, all my settlements, and he's got OB with Bob so his cities too, would be worth quite a bit. Add in foreign trade
(1:10:35 PM) pocketbeetle: Btw
(1:10:47 PM) pocketbeetle: How much commerce do you get per trade route with my megacities?
(1:10:54 PM) pocketbeetle: I've been meaning to ask that for agggggeees
(1:11:02 PM) Selrahc: Hum. 5 I think?
(1:11:07 PM) pocketbeetle: whaaaaaaaaat.
(1:11:11 PM) Selrahc: I can go check if you want to know.
(1:11:14 PM) pocketbeetle: lol. So wrong. I get like...3
(1:11:30 PM) Selrahc: Might actually be more.
(1:11:34 PM) pocketbeetle: awwwwww
(1:11:40 PM) pocketbeetle:
(1:11:51 PM) pocketbeetle: free village effectively
(1:11:57 PM) pocketbeetle: nice, ah well
(1:11:59 PM) Selrahc: Basically, yeah.
(1:12:09 PM) Selrahc: Should actually maybe consider some inns.
(1:12:47 PM) pocketbeetle: Speaking of coast before, have you seen that barb city to your East?
(1:12:59 PM) Selrahc: Which one?
(1:13:04 PM) pocketbeetle: there's two?
(1:13:19 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. one on the coast, one on my borders.
(1:13:31 PM) pocketbeetle: oh okay. Nice free xp. Do mages get odds?
(1:13:42 PM) pocketbeetle: The coastal one, Zbolub or something
(1:13:45 PM) Selrahc: Not against archers.
(1:14:08 PM) pocketbeetle: They're weak aren't they for str 2/4? str 5 mage with a combat promotion?
(1:14:20 PM) pocketbeetle: suppose fortify bonus also
(1:14:21 PM) Selrahc: Mages are only S4.
(1:14:52 PM) Selrahc: I would have a chance... but I'm not really willing to throw away mages even on 70-80% chances.
(1:15:31 PM) pocketbeetle: why on earth did I think they're str 5? Ah archmages are str 5
(1:15:46 PM) pocketbeetle: agree, not if they're only str 4
(1:16:00 PM) Selrahc: Might be worth doing if I maelstrom first.
(1:16:25 PM) pocketbeetle: Soemthing to consider. Might speed up adepts
(1:16:45 PM) pocketbeetle: Have you considered settling your GC also?
(1:16:50 PM) Selrahc: The bad thing would be how far from the core that would be.
(1:16:57 PM) Selrahc: Considered it.
(1:17:27 PM) Selrahc: Not done it yet. Need to pick my Heroic Epic site.
(1:17:35 PM) Selrahc: There are two contenders.
(1:17:56 PM) Selrahc: One is a lot more developed than the other right now.
(1:18:26 PM) Selrahc: But both could be pretty good for hammer production. Need to decide which would be better.
(1:18:55 PM) Selrahc: Location as well as hammer production. One is more core than the other.
(1:19:15 PM) Selrahc: You know that big patch of jungle that I transformed into forest?
(1:19:27 PM) Selrahc: I'm lumbermilling over the entire area.
(1:19:39 PM) pocketbeetle: I saw that Take ages to lumbermill don't they
(1:19:53 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. With the +50% build time from ice.
(1:19:57 PM) pocketbeetle: ooooh
(1:20:06 PM) Selrahc: That will eventually be a better site.
(1:20:18 PM) Selrahc: But it requires a lot of labour to get it there.
(1:20:41 PM) pocketbeetle: I've currently got a tile of land at Kwythellar that refuses to geta forest spread
(1:20:49 PM) pocketbeetle: Been waiting the entire game
(1:20:53 PM) pocketbeetle: will not grow!
(1:21:05 PM) Selrahc: Heh.
(1:21:20 PM) Selrahc: Convert to leaves!
(1:21:34 PM) pocketbeetle: blech.
(1:22:00 PM) pocketbeetle: On that subject, are you interested in another Stonewarden?
(1:22:00 PM) Selrahc: You actually done much with kilmorph?
(1:22:11 PM) pocketbeetle: nowhere near as much as I want
(1:22:16 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. Sure. What are you thinking?
(1:22:29 PM) pocketbeetle: I wanted to get temples in most settlements, simply not had the time with all the rubbish going on
(1:22:35 PM) pocketbeetle: really really hammer constricted
(1:22:50 PM) pocketbeetle: Umm, I was thinking a Stonewarden for an easy agreement
(1:23:20 PM) Selrahc: The one we've just done, or a different one?
(1:23:28 PM) pocketbeetle: I rather like my tropical climes, cold is unpleasant to wake up to in the morning. Another one
(1:23:41 PM) Selrahc: Alright, whats the thinking?
(1:23:46 PM) pocketbeetle: I was thinking I offer a Stonewarden for the agreement that you don't build the Deepening this game
(1:23:56 PM) pocketbeetle: what's your thoughts on that?
(1:24:23 PM) Selrahc: Hum. I don't know... Deepening is cool. Feels downright unillian to not build it.
(1:24:49 PM) pocketbeetle: Think of all the poor Centaurs stuck out in th ecold
(1:25:10 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm trying to improve their plight, but not all have warm stables
(1:25:18 PM) Selrahc: Well the other thing. Iskender talked to me about making the deepening super devastating.
(1:25:19 PM) pocketbeetle: in fact.. I don't have any stables
(1:25:29 PM) pocketbeetle: erm
(1:25:33 PM) Selrahc: I'm interested to know what he had in mind.
(1:25:39 PM) pocketbeetle: Did I mention Iskender is really really annoying me?
(1:25:39 PM) Selrahc: And why he would want that!
(1:26:11 PM) pocketbeetle: Do you know any details?
(1:26:33 PM) Selrahc: No. He said he'd explain it in a while.
(1:27:01 PM) Selrahc: And since I don't have the tech, I was fine with waiting.
(1:27:25 PM) pocketbeetle: Hmmm. Well, and so an airy fairy plan offered one day by the mercenary while chewing the cud is much more interesting than my wonderful friendly lovely plan to increase your gold reserves? :o
(1:27:32 PM) Selrahc: I should probably ask him about it, now that I've finished the current *Big Project" tm
(1:28:15 PM) Selrahc: Well from a theoretical standpoint. I've never heard of any way to optimize the Deepening.
(1:28:28 PM) Selrahc: So I'd be interested on that basis anyway.
(1:28:50 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay. Well keep my offer in mind.
(1:29:01 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. Will do.
(1:29:28 PM) Selrahc: For the moment you'll have to live in fear of minor micromanagement hassles in the future.
(1:30:03 PM) pocketbeetle: K *note to self: get druids?*
(1:30:31 PM) pocketbeetle: But yeah, to answer the other question, I've built like 2 temples of kilmorph in settlements. Wish I had more
(1:30:38 PM) Selrahc: Pff. The druids would never serve in your sanctimonious regime. They prefer lords who are less saccharine.
(1:31:03 PM) pocketbeetle: I'll give them free groves!
(1:31:05 PM) Selrahc: I can see that. Hammers are alwayss going to be the biggest bottleneck for Kuriotates.
(1:31:08 PM) pocketbeetle: yup
(1:31:24 PM) Selrahc: Especially with the need to keep up militarily.
(1:32:37 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay, well I think we've thrashed out everything that needed to be.
(1:32:57 PM) Selrahc: Alright. I think I'm going to go grab some lunch now anyway.
(1:33:11 PM) pocketbeetle: Yup, cheers for the chat. I'll let you know how things go with Iskender
(1:33:22 PM) Selrahc: Okay. Good luck with that.

Quick summary of it:

• Don’t think we can use his GSci to found the AV shrine in Avelorn.
  
• Selrahc and Iskender have been talking quite a bit, once again Iskender is playing down the vampires.
  Selrahc thinks he’s being overconfident about Blinding Light from Rathas, I agree.
  
• If Selrahc decides to attack anyone, Cull is the most likely target it would seem.
  
• I can’t join the Undercouncil with Selrahc, as Illians can’t research Deception.
  
• Each of the trade routes I give to Selrahc are virtually worth a town in themselves.
  
• Selrahc’s not interested in the “Stonewarden for no Deepening ritual” trade.
  Apparently Iskender has been talking something nasty here too?
  
• I made Selrahc aware of my plans for the Hippus.
  Bit stupid of me there, shouldn’t do that again, confidentiality or not.
  
• Most importantly however: he’s down for the MDP. =)
  

I need to write out something official-sounding asap, before the Hippus war gives him cold feet, but I think it’s a done deal.

Sent him a note after the Iskender chat:

Hey,

Just letting you know that unfortunately I've had to declare on the Hippus.

As we discussed, I offered him the alliance vs Calabim deal one more time, he rejected it on the basis of wanting to stay neutral.
I then offered a NAP for 100t or until the Calabim are eliminated, whichever was shorter. He again rejected it, on the basis of wanting to keep his options open.

From the chat, I get the impression he wanted to 'wait and see' what happened between the Calabim and Kurios, and then take action.
Obviously that wasn't acceptable to me, and combined with him continuing to downplay the importance of Bob having vassalised one third of the players in the game, meant the decision was not difficult.

I don't think the war will drag on for too long, although it's a bit of a sucky thing to do at Christmas time.

Anyway,
Pb

Oh, and Bob knows:

(12:39:36 AM) BobChillingworth: hahahahaha
(12:39:40 AM) BobChillingworth: you declared on iskender!
(12:39:43 AM) BobChillingworth: oh man
(12:39:53 AM) BobChillingworth: no wonder the turn took so long
(12:39:55 AM) pocketbeetle: Hi Bob
(12:40:14 AM) pocketbeetle: I've no idea what you're talking about. Oh that war? Just another chopping thing maybe?
(12:40:17 AM) BobChillingworth: hehe I was going through the turn log, as I usually do, and wham
(12:40:35 AM) BobChillingworth: yeah no kidding
(12:41:29 AM) BobChillingworth: I gotta wonder, though... why?
BobChillingworth has stopped typing

.

[novice]

PocketBeetle, your thread is a real page-turner.

[Enoch]

I have to agree. This is always the thread I check first at realms beyond!

[K]

Operation ATM smashing success. Will be interesting to see what Iskender was thinking when the game is over.

Doesn't look like this conflict will take too long then onto the main event.

[fire&ice]

are we not getting any updates because your geting destroyed by the hippus :neenernee

(10:04:04 PM) pocketbeetle: So I'm afraid the Kurios are declaring war on the Hippus this turn

What we arn't allowed to poke fun?

[Brian Shanahan]

are we not getting any updates because your geting destroyed by the hippus :neenernee

Quite the opposite I'd imagine. PB is having so many problems integrating his new acquisitions into the glorious Rat Empire he's too busy to chat.

[Thoth]

Fair enough, but my popcorn is getting cold while I wait for an update.


The lurkers demand screenshots of mayhem!

[Krill]

If you don't want to tell the lurkers you can email me the updates. But whatever you do, tell me what is happening please, I'm getting bored.

And no, Christmas is not an excuse.