RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[RefSteel]

(BTW, if it's a few hammers short of paying for itself, I don't care. It's beakers. If its 30 hammers short, I care...)

Just so. The Hindu Monastery at HV provides 2 base hammers per turn plus ~2 beakers per turn (from its +10% beaker bonus) and will start making an additional ~2.7 beakers per turn when and if we land Sankore. ALL of this dries up the moment we get Scientific Method. This will assuredly be worthwhile, especially because the monastery will continue to provide +2 culture per turn forever (eventually maturing to +4) and that city could use the culture to help close the ugly tactical hole in our southern border. Any other monasteries we build hereafter though....

Fierias, Temminck, and Feng Shui all have Hindu Monasteries already.

PR doesn't even have Hindusim yet. If it gets the religion soon, it would probably be worth building a monastery as long as that also gets done soon, but there's no way the benefits (if any) will be very strong.

Kilrah presumably doesn't like the idea of trading its would-be HE-unit hammers for commerce, so it shouldn't build a Monastery unless it does so right away AND we're sure we won't have SciMeth for at least 20 turns after it's finished.

Last I heard, none of our other cities even had granaries.

Unless I hear objections, I'm going to plant it where the sign is. If you have objections, please dont hesitate.

I'm still not sure we should settle green dot this soon (or necessarily) at all. Maintenance will be crazy, and defending it could be a nightmare. If we're serious about doing it, then the spot with the sign is probably the best.

[Maniac Marshall]

I don't like settling it this early either, but... if we don't settle it shortly, it will have problems with encroaching culture from Ruby Tuesday too, even more so than Savannah, and there's the issue of the site being poached by Inca. Unfortunately, I think it's either settle it now or never =/ If you prefer never, then say so, because I can be convinced, otherwise, I'm going to settle there.

BTW, we have support of Krill to keep expanding. Via chat he wants us to try to catch up to India in cities so we don't fall behind in production.

I'm waiting to hear something from Byz. When I do, I'll have another map for you to look at.

EDIT: Oh, I GUESS we could settle the 1SW spot to avoid the Mali culture issue, but that's even more maint. and even harder to defend. Also, there is no real way to negotiate a landsplit over the area with Inca. There's just not enough good land there for 2 cities.

[Maniac Marshall]

I see on civstats Nakor made a couple of whips. I have a bad, terrible feeling we're going to lose the race by a turn or two if we want to settle there.

EDIT: Actually, I did the counting. If either of their two closest cities whipped a settler this turn, and they intend to settle the spot under their axe, we're in a settler race that would end in a tie. A tie I think we could win, but, we might have to declare war and claim the first half of the timer to do it... We wouldn't have to actually attack anyone, just to make sure we move first.

[RefSteel]

I don't like settling it this early either, but... if we don't settle it shortly, it will have problems with encroaching culture from Ruby Tuesday too, even more so than Savannah

What did we agree to about border-sharing there? The planned spot has overlap with RT's BFC. If Mali agreed we could have the shared grassland hill and floodplain long-term, then yes, we'll have to plant it ASAP and get huge amounts of culture there (maybe whip Granary-(Forge?)-Theater-Monastery-Monument-Library-Temple) to have a hope of claiming those tiles. If not, then those tiles are theirs and we should let it be. The other tiles which RT's culture threatens include one worthless desert tile and:

One FP that's first ring for Green Dot and third for RT. With five(!) other first-ring fps, Green Dot won't need this tile until we control this tile thoroughly.

One FP and one desert hill that are second ring for Green Dot and third for RT. Since our city has 9(!) uncontested FPs in its BFC, plus the one mentioned just above (also three uncontested desert hills, in case we actually care) we'll have a little while before we strictly need to claim this one. If we make a theater our our third or fourth build (after granary and forge, and either before or after a Hindu Temple) in the city, we'll be fine, as long as we don't plant it ridiculously late. (This will not threaten the tiles green dot shares with RT's BFC.)

That's it. I would argue that Savannah is in greater cultural danger from Ruby Tuesday, simply because it wants to work that wheat tile ASAP.

and there's the issue of the site being poached by Inca.

This is of course possible. If we think it's worth the cost of keeping the site long-term, this is the reason to plant it now.

I'm waiting to hear something from Byz. When I do, I'll have another map for you to look at.

Cool.

Also, there is no real way to negotiate a landsplit over the area with Inca. There's just not enough good land there for 2 cities.

On the basis of what you've said before in this thread, would you consider a land split agreement with Inca to be worth the pixels with which it's displayed anyway? Here are the possible land split agreements with Inca: 1) One side plants the city, and the other decides not to start a war over it. Adequate defenses for the city may influence this decision. 2) One side plants a city, the other attacks it, their attack fails, and an uneasy peace is established. 3) One side plants a city, the other attacks and takes it, and an uneasy peace is established.

There are other possibilities, but not possibilities that even pretend to be land split agreements.

I see on civstats Nakor made a couple of whips. I have a bad, terrible feeling we're going to lose the race by a turn or two if we want to settle there.

EDIT: Actually, I did the counting. If either of their two closest cities whipped a settler this turn, and they intend to settle the spot under their axe, we're in a settler race that would end in a tie. A tie I think we could win, but, we might have to declare war and claim the first half of the timer to do it... We wouldn't have to actually attack anyone, just to make sure we move first.

So ... if the picture you show up-thread is from T130 after playing the turn, and we haven't yet played T131 (or depending on what we did then) then we should be able to found Green Dot, if we insist on doing so, on T134. It wouldn't be actually connected to our road network, of course. Is this in keeping with what you counted? Does your counting take into account the possibility that they might have workers roading to their site?

[RefSteel]

I might not be able to log in between now and Tuesday evening. I still *might* be able to log into the game. If you post instructions (specific and detailed or general and vague) I will attempt to play the turns during your time away, bearing in mind that I might not succeed.

[Maniac Marshall]

I will post instructions tomorrow night. Depeding on when the turn rolls, I might be able to play tuesday night before I leave. We SHOULD have internet access at the hotel, but...

BTW, I believe, after whipping a couple of cities, the Inca revolted to HR this turn, a fact I had forgotten, so we should win the race unless they have a settler already on the way.

[RefSteel]

Okay, got back for a moment after all. I'll watch for instructions when I return here, though that might not be until Tuesday night. Hopefully, Morgan will be around or other circumstances will work out in our favor and we won't have to find out if I'm able to log into the game.

Note/remember that while all benefits of Monasteries (except for culture) expire with SciMeth, none of the benefits of Temples will disappear any time soon. The hammers don't go away until Mass Media, the beakers-if-we-get-Sankore last until computers, and the happy and culture stick around permanently. For these reasons, unless we have an immediate need for the units Kilrah is building (which we might) - and even then once that immediate need is met - I would advise building a Hindu Temple in Kilrah. Within about thirty turns, it will mean MORE units produced there, not fewer.

[Morgan]

Sorry for the long absence, been a bit of upheaval recently.

ready to play.

[Maniac Marshall]

Awesome. I'll get the turn tonite and then post instructions for the next week or so.

[Maniac Marshall]

I found time at lunch to play most of the turn. We actually killed a barb axe near smiths. First barb we've seen in eons. The area that spawned him is now under observation from a sentry chariot (except for one tile) so hopefully this will be the last of this. I am rethinking a couple whippings, will crunch the #'s when i get home, but otherwise, the turn is complete.

With turns going at least 48 hrs of real time with the timer extension, we won't have to play another turn till Wednesday morning or afternoon civstats time. The succeeding turns would be Friday, Sunday, and then Tuesday if we just let the timer roll. Fierias and Smithsonian have microplans for that long, i'll just copy them over. The other cities I will make an (unfortunately) text based one. Maybe Ref could convert them to spreadsheet form if he has time, (if not, then he doesn't and thats fine) so you could more easily read them.

Good news from the turn: We're up to #2 in hammers (behind India)
Bad News: We're down to #2 in pop (tripple whip/quad whip combos are a bitch) behind I *THINK* India, but maybe Ottos, food (by 3. We'll be back on top here in 2-4 turns I'm fairly sure) behind either India or Ottos, and GNP, behind we think Portugal, who're getting bonus gnp while researching the widely known music.