Nice.
How about an option for disabling the scoreboard/demographics (NoScore mod)?
The ships are the main issue I have. Steam powered navies were a big jump from sails, yet aren't represented at all. Moving Destroyers/Transports to Artillery widens that gap even farther. So adding a steam ship makes even more sense with this mod. Put them in at railroad+astro? A steam transport, and a cruiser. Require coal or oil. Cruiser might need something extra, like Rifling, to represent advanced guns of the not-quite-artillery type.
That's also way beyond balance into the "throwing in new stuff" area of modding. Yes, it's been said before that the entire 19th century is missing from Civ 4's naval model.
There are actually a few mods that I'd love to help design, such as a new naval war mod, or one that removed great people and turned the mechanism to a new way to create units (specifically the main way). But as T-hawk and Cyneheard have said...they aren't within the scope of this mod.
It should be possible to merge the NoScore mod with this, but the lack of score can itself affect games in a negative manner.
The scoreboard, especially combined with Civstats so you can see each tiny score change, gives a LOT of information that theoretically you shouldn't have. The demographics screen gives even more.
I like espionage, I think it adds a lot to games (other than change civics missions, which are horribly unbalanced - though they could be fixed with a major cost increase and maybe a timer between missions (10t?)). Getting piles of information on people without spending EPs (or even meeting their civ in many cases) just breaks the EP model.
Regarding no tech trading games. Actually removing the "enable tech trading" flag from Alphabet (or Paper in this case), means you can't see non-tradeable techs and "can research" techs any more either. Would be a good change IMO. Of course you'd need 2 versions of the MOD then.
Elkad Wrote:The scoreboard, especially combined with Civstats so you can see each tiny score change, gives a LOT of information that theoretically you shouldn't have. The demographics screen gives even more.
Yes, there is a lot of information available to players. But look at PBEM4V for how hard it is to function when you're flying blind; lack of data --> extra caution in most cases (a reckless assault can easily lose you the game, but turtling is almost always a reasonable course of action).
1) Mobile SAM get a buff similar to what we did to SAM Infantry:
Now 80% Interception chance (up from 50%)
No longer requires Oil (in keeping with the other oil changes)
2) Oil Wells now require 3t to build (ignoring Steam Power)
Also, we found some changelog errors in the UU/UB section. So here it goes:
Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of banks. Remember: A Golden Age cannot trigger Financial's bonus yield (as in the base game).
Expansive: No longer gets double-speed granaries, but gets double-speed grocers. +35% Worker Production, +35% work boat production.
Creative: Loses cheap Libs, still has +2 culture per city, half price theatres, Colosseums.
Charismatic: +2 happiness, but no longer gets +1 happy from Monuments.
Protective: Plus double-speed granaries, but loses double speed castles and drill 1 on archery and gunpowder units.
Imperialistic: Double-speed Custom Houses (At least this gives Imp something on water maps. For flavor, Custom Houses are very mercantile, which is what 17th century Imperialism was). +60% Settler Production.
Organized: Gains double speed libraries.
Civs:
Rebalancing:
Inca: Terraces now give +1 culture, Quechua loses combat 1.
Byzantium: Cataphracts are 11 strength.
Khmer: Ballista Elephants are 8 str, +50% vs. Mounted units, +25% vs. Knights, and still target Mounteds outside of a city (this buff was to make them better than regular WE against their nemesis, Knights).
Sumeria: Vultures now get +30% vs. Melee.
India: The Fast Worker is now 2 moves, but starts with Mobility (-1 Terrain Movement Costs), and now starts with Mysticism/Wheel, instead of Mysticism/Mining (slower start).
Celts: Dun now gives G2, not G1.
Portugal: Feitoria now costs 120h, from 180h.
Rome: Preat S7. Forum increased to +35% GPP generation.
Persia: Immortal is now a S5 spear replacement.
Carthage: Cothon decreased to 80 hammers. Numidian cav increased to S6, C1, loses melee bonus and F1 (and innate retreat chance).
France: Salon +1 free spec, -1 artist.
Germany: UU is now the Kanone, a cannon but costs 80h (down from 100h).
US: UU: Minuteman, Rifle replacement, starts with Guerilla 1, Woodsman 1. UB: Mall, Grocer replacement, +1 happy from deer, sugar, Hit (Musical, Movie, Single).
Japan: UB: Pagoda: Observatory replacement, +10% hammers.
Civics:
Police State: Now Medium Cost (down from High).
Vassalage: Now provides free support for military units as well (meaning Pacifism is cheaper), and is Medium Upkeep.
Slavery: 30h for the 1st pop, 20h for the 2nd pop and subsequent pops. So, 30/50/70/90. On Quick speed, that's 20/33/46/60.
Serfdom: +75% Worker Speed, +1h for Watermills and Windmills.
Free Market: No longer provides -25% Corporate Costs. Now provides +25% Trade Route Yield.
Environmentalism: No longer provides +25% Corporate Costs, or +2 commerce to windmills. Provides +1 gold per specialist, +1c to farms and pastures, +2c to forest preserves, and Low upkeep. Swapped with Free Speech. Now available at Liberalism.
Free Speech: Now High Upkeep, swapped with Environmentalism. Now available at Scientific Method.
Wonders:
Rushmore: Now -50% WW (from -25%).
Red Cross: 200h.
West Point: 550h, +5XP. Now requires a lvl 5 unit (17XP/13XP for Charismatic).
Great Lighthouse: Now +1 trade route instead of +2 trade routes, enabled at Masonry, but needs lighthouse and Sailing (no functional change in the tech requirements but makes F6 look less cluttered).
SoZ: no WW effect. Now +3XP, 200 hammers, no building prerequisites.
Cristo: +200% SPI production, -50% Anarchy instead of -100%.
The Internet: now a wonder. 2k cost, +15% beakers in every city. No longer a project
SDI: No longer intercepts nukes (irrelevant as nukes no longer).
Base unit changes:
War Elephants: now 7 str, +50% vs. Mounted units, and +25% vs. Knights.
SAM Infantry: 75% interception chance (up form 40%)
Mobile SAM: 80% interception chance (up from 50%). No longer requires Oil.
Destroyer: now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)
Transport: now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)
Mobile Artillery: can now load guided Missiles and Tac Nukes (as Submarines and Missile Cruisers do). No longer require oil.
Gunships decreased to 3 moves.
ICBM: No longer unlimited range, but long enough so that they will out distance your army and navy easily, and they can be rebased. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built.
iCost: 900h
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 160
iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 12
iAirRange: 36
Tactical Nukes: no longer nukes according to the code, now S80 1shot units that can bombard units, cause collateral damage to 5 units, cannot be intercepted. Cost 300 hammers. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built. Full list of changes:
iCost: 300h
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 80
iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 5
iAirRange: 4
Guided Missiles: can bombard units, tiles and cultural defence, cause collateral damage to 2 units, cannot be intercepted. Cost 75 hammers. Full list of changes (underline means original stat, for comparison):
iCost: 75h
iBombRate: 16
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 40
iCollateralDamage: 100
iCollateralDamageLimit: 50%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 1
iAirRange: 4
Flanking:
Horse Archer (and replacements): do 50% flanking damage to Catapults and Trebuchet.
Knight (and replacements): do 50% flanking damage to Catapults and Trebuchet.
Cuirassier (and replacements): do 50% flanking damage to Catapults and Trebuchet and Cannon.
Cavalry (and replacements): do 50% flanking damage to Catapults and Trebuchet and Cannon.
Gunships: do 50% flanking damage to Cannon, Artillery and Trebuchet.
Buildings:
Jails: now -50% War Weariness.
Castles (and replacement UB): no longer decrease bombardment rate of catapults or trebuchets.
Technology:
Hunting: enables pastures, cost increased by 50% from 40 to 60. No longer enables camps.
Animal Husbandry: enables camps, and scouts. No longer enables pastures.
Archery: base tech cost decreased by two thirds, from 60 to 40
Espionage:
Switch Civic and Switch Religion now require Future Tech.
Spies now spawn with "Secretive", and cannot see tiles except the one they're standing on.
The No Espionage game option now works properly:
GSpy points are converted into Great Merchant points.
Espionage no longer gets converted into culture.
Cultural expansion now happens at normal values.
Spies cannot be built.
Graphs are always visible on contact.
Tile Changes:
Watermills: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Rep Parts.
Workshops: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Chemistry.
Mines: +1h at Rep Parts.
Whaling Boats: Enabled at Sailing, not Optics. Otherwise unchanged.
Oil Wells: Now requires 3t on Normal speed (instead of 10t).
Game Mechanics:
The Draft: Rifles now cost 2 pop to draft. A city must now end a draft at size 7 instead of size 5 (So size 9 to draft a rifle, size 8 to draft a musket).
Corporations: Completely removed from the game.
Culture Victory: 33K, 50K, 75K, 150K on Quick/Normal/Epic/Marathon.
Miscellaneous:
Coastal Blockade now has a range of 1 square around the blockader, instead of 3 squares
Barracks: increased cost to 60 hammers, +1 culture.
AP Resolutions: Declare War (on a non-member), Force Peace (between two members), and Assign City are no longer eligible resolution actions.
Fail-gold: You never get fail-gold if you also completed the wonder somewhere else (so no National Wonder fail-gold, or doubling up on a wonder to guarantee yourself a paycheck. The game still informs you that you received "0 gold" from your hammers).
Hut techs: Can only gain techs from the first two rows of the tech screen
Addendum: These changes are only present in the Tech Trading version of the mod.
Tech Trading:
Known Tech Bonus changed to 50 (up from 30), enabled by Tech Trading (so there is no Known Tech Bonus until you research Paper)
Alphabet no longer enables tech trading, allows Open Borders
Writing enables Map trading, no longer enables OB
Paper enables Tech trading, no longer enables Map Trading. Requires Metal Casting, Literature and Code of Laws as mandatory prerequisites.
Corporation enables Tech Trading (and increases Known Tech Bonus by 50%)
Scientific Method enables Tech Trading (and increases Known Tech Bonus by 50%)
Cost of Education, Gunpowder, Printing Press and Nationalism increased by 50%
Cost of all subsequent techs increased by 100%
Techs prior to Paper in the tech tree can no longer be traded:
The untradeable techs are as follows: Fishing, The Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mysticism, Mining, Sailing, Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Archery, Meditation, Polytheism, Masonry, Horseback Riding, Priesthood, Monotheism, Bronze Working, Writing, Metal Casting, Iron Working, Aesthetics, Mathematics, Alphabet, Monarchy, Compass, Literature, Calendar, Construction, Currency, Machinery, Drama, Engineering, Code of Laws, Feudalism, Optics, Music, Philosophy, Civil Service, Theology, Divine Right, Paper, Guilds, Banking
Cyneheard Wrote:Yes, there is a lot of information available to players. But look at PBEM4V for how hard it is to function when you're flying blind; lack of data --> extra caution in most cases (a reckless assault can easily lose you the game, but turtling is almost always a reasonable course of action).
Spies were banned in that game. Elkad's point was it's easier to get info through demo/score data than through actually spending resources on spying.
Basically it comes down to the idea that this should be one mod for NTT, TT, no EP and EP games. That means that the demo screen and score need to either be available for all or none of these game modes. Unfortunately, if Score is unavailable for all of these game modes, then the lack of score makes no difference for the No EP game as you will get the EP charts from the turn you meet and will never lose them, so the mod doesn't matter. From EP games, then there are still advantages to be had from having the power, MFG, GNP, and CY charts. And then there are the differences between PBEM and PB games...as I think you can see, there are a lot of variables to take into account. One of the most interesting is that we don't technically need to even use civ stats.
And that is a whole different conversation.
If I were given the option to merge the NoScore mod with RB mod I'd actually like to do it so long as NoScore was left as an option (and off as default), but that basically requires either the removal of a current game option or a rebuild of the save format, and I don't think either are feasible given limited modding ability or resources.
I listened to this the other day (oil from coal) and thought it might be applicable to this mod (ie another way of powering those oil units).
I have finally decided to put down some cash and register a website. It is www.ruffhi.com. Now I remain free to move the hosting options without having to change the name of the site.
(October 22nd, 2014, 10:52)Caledorn Wrote: And ruff is officially banned from playing in my games as a reward for ruining my big surprise by posting silly and correct theories in the PB18 tech thread.
