RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[RefSteel]

RE: Fierias, the hammers exactly match up, so it's not an issue.

RE: HV I posted a picture of it earlier. It says 30/30 on food.

EDIT: I'll just get you more pictures. Hang on.

Cool; thanks! I've found that Civ refuses to provide all the information one needs in a single still-frame image (you can't see the exact amount of food in a city's box and number of hammers in its build at the same time, for instance, to say nothing of the number of hammers in builds-on-hold). I'm currently in the process of re-installing software on my machine, so ... uh ... I hope it works. I'm not sure when I'll be able to actually post an updated microplan, but I'll do my best.

[Maniac Marshall]

Do you need any other pictures? HV has 15 hammers in a library and nothing in anything else.

[RefSteel]

Do you need any other pictures? HV has 15 hammers in a library and nothing in anything else.

Nope - no other pictures needed! Thanks for the hammer report on HV. The food and health situation at Fierias would be helpful just so I can figure out where it disagrees with my spreadsheet (preventing further headaches down the road) but it's not time-critical, as I won't be able to look into it immediately anyway.

[Maniac Marshall]

Those pictures were edited into my post on the previous page.

[RefSteel]

Those pictures were edited into my post on the previous page.

Ah. I see them now. Astonishing. Okay, I'll go think about the implications and how best to get settlers out quickly anyway. It will probably help to farm tiles at HV since what we actually lost was just a bunch of food. If we've already started on cottages, it might be worth farming anyway, and cottaging over the farms later when it catches up to its growth. Not sure though. I'll look into it.

By the way: You've got to love a game interface that features a check box you can highlight to basically and totally (in 95+% of all in-game circumstances) shoot your city in the foot, especially one whose selection is so easy to miss. It's just bad luck that the one (the first?) city where it bit us is one of the two worst spots in the empire for it. (Smith, starting in a few turns, will be the only place where it might have been even worse.)

Anyway, good night!

[Maniac Marshall]

Well, if I somehow am responsible for the avoid growth thing, it's pretty much a sure thing that I win the prize for the single biggest screwup since Exploit was still alive. It really hurts to put so much time and effort into stuff, only to have something like this happen. This game is pretty much the only thing I do anymore. Outside of work, conventions, and spending time with my son, it IS all I do.

I have to be honest, it's pretty much taken over my life to an obsessive/compulsive level.

Remember me telling you in chat a long time ago that one of the reasons I didn't want to be majorly involved was because if I let that happen to me, my OCD would kick in? Well, I had to force myself to stay away last week, and it was all I could manage. The fact that I was both exhausted from almost no sleep, and nowhere near a computer from 7:30AM till sometime afer 2AM every day was probably what made it possible. Hell, I'm kicking myself for not noticing this yesterday, as tired as I was. How tired was I? Well, I slept from 4PM yesterday till Noon today if that's a hint.

I want to play the "perfect game", even as I know such is far beyond my skill. I have people on other teams now telling us we're a favorite to win... and I want to believe that... because I now desperately want us to win...

I also know that none of this would have been possible without all the stellar work you've put into this team. You're far more responsible for why this team has done so well than I am, so thank you so much.

But, when you see me getting down on myself for things like this, maybe you know why. If we lose the game by one turn, or because we're short a unit or two, I'll always wonder if this scrrew up was my fault, and wonder if it's this that cost us the game...

I'm going to try to sleep now...

[T-hawk]

The 30/30 food thing is expected behavior if Avoid Growth is turned on. Any extra food in the box beyond its capacity gets truncated.

Avoid Growth was put into the game as an answer to the late-game situation when a city has an odd number of food, so it could not reach a stable size; it would grow then lose -1 food every turn and eventually starve. But ironically, that's actually the right thing to do in that situation; you may as well use the N+1th citizen while you have him; even if he's temporary, that's still more productivity than never having him.

Also it's usually not even right to avoid growth into unhappiness or unhealthiness. Just let the city grow, and when you do add happiness, the citizen is already born and ready to work. Or just whip him.

The one time Avoid Growth is correct is if a city will grow into unhappiness by a margin of 0 or 1 extra food. Then it's correct to click Avoid Growth for just that turn, which avoids losing 2 food to the angry citizen on the next turn.

Cool; thanks! I've found that Civ refuses to provide all the information one needs in a single still-frame image (you can't see the exact amount of food in a city's box and number of hammers in its build at the same time, for instance, to say nothing of the number of hammers in builds-on-hold).

Let's remember that Civ is first meant for interactive play, not for static screenshots. But that can be modded anyway. And Civ still does do a great job of displaying lots of information in each image; compare it to trying to report on Diablo or Guild Wars where you can only mouseover one object at a time.

[Morgan]

You should always have a little emotional detachment from your games, you cannot have total control over other people/teams therefore there is always the possiblity that 20 Currisiers will pile across the borders from a direction you'd never have conceived, razing every city till your no more.

Game is down btw.

[Maniac Marshall]

I hear what your saying, and it's not as though I'm going to jump from the nearest tall building if 500 Cavs pour into our sleepy little civ a month from now, but I've never been good at the whole emotional detachment thing, unfortunately, which is a big part of why I no longer play lots of empire building over weeks or months games, even though I was pretty good at them. I get too involved. I care too much.

SP games of Civ or MoO don't cause this sort of problem for me, but they are also a lot less satisfying than competing against real people.

At some point in a few weeks, I'll probably need to take a few days off to recharge again, and I know when war does break out I'll want you to handle it, Morgan, as I know you're better at that sort of thing than I am. I also, certinally, want any suggestions you have.

[Maniac Marshall]

I've taken a bit ill (yes, I know, sleep, health, etc.) and with the game down anyway, I'm going to try to get to bed early tonite.