[SPOILERS] Lurkerloos and map discussion

[Mardoc]

Clearly we're considering declaring war on the wrong guy. Leave Commodore alone, let's declare on the lurkers.

Lucky guy, he's going to be able to do both!

Agreed. The Company of Corn and Queeg's Quills are next, but Zedef's Archers shall appear soon, always appreciate the comments. Currently, my archers are Mardoc's Company, Boldly's Bowmen, and The Sons of Krill, by the way:

[Zed-F]

Funnily enough, I would have advised peace until Ballistaphants anyway, but it seemed pointless to say so since the other lurkers were all crying out for bloody entertainment.

[Krill]

No offense intended Master Krill, but Commodore already took a run at Scooter with Chariot and Warrior. Wouldn't he likely have tried again had they left those unit alive?

So, attack the person that has impi's...with chariots? And there are two impi out on the border, you don't do shit with the chariots other than try to farm a 10XP unit for HE.

They also know that Commodore's in a corner, or at least both Commodore and Scooter believe that Commodore's in a corner. As you said, the two of them are essentially in conflict from Turn 0. So why wouldn't they take out 2 units at 72% odds? When at war, destroy the enemy. Isn't this really just a matter of timing?

Rule number 3 of warfare: don't piss off Commodore, because he will stay at war for the entire game and grind it out, regardless of the amount of troops he has to build or to damage it will do to his chances of victory. Not declaring would have given the Zulu another 40+, probably 50+ turns of build up, as a FIN civ against CRE/PRO when they already have an MFG/CY lead. That's a lead they should never lose, and even Ballistaphants die to catapults, swords and HA. Everything does...

In light of their lack of knowledge of the ivory, the containment strategy while picking the low hanging fruit seems pretty sensible. Unfortunately for them they haven't noticed the ivory and they may have falsely concluded that "He's not going to throw away his game to spite us over an opportunistic chariot pop, especially not when he was trying to be opportunistic himself". Scooter's false assumption will appear to be confirmed in the following turns if Commodore finds the patience to wait for elephants.

Everyone on that team knows that Commodore will grind the war out once it's started...and then they start a war. Being opportunistic, fine, the conflict has to become obvious at some point, but to kill a chariot and warrior? That's a naff pay off. Commodore was at least trying to get a good front city and get copper, it failed because he didn't know the Zulu had copper. That's his fault for fucking up the peace treaty when trying to move the scout past the Zulu capital, if they had know that I'd bet $100 he and Thoth wouldn't have gone for the front city. If he had gotten that city and Zulu didn't have copper then that would have been a huge positive for them (well duh, you're thinking). If scooter had turned up with 5 impis and 3 chariots trying to smash his way through and wreck the Siam economy, that could have won the entire war between the sides.

But a chariot and warrior? They aren't even worth the 45 hammers they cost now, against impi and axes.

I'm especially interested to see if Commodore will tip his hand by hooking up the ivory for luxary reasons before he lands Construction and HBR.

That's what I'm waiting for too.

Lesson kids: When you have (basically) Sury and a lot of land (and great land for your first couple cities), don't waste time antagonizing a good team for no gain whatsoever. Also, play to win please.

I read this as:

Lesson kids: When you have FIN/IND of Zulu and a lot of land (and great land for your first couple cities), don't waste time antagonizing a good team for no gain whatsoever. Also, play to win please.

And then :

[Zed-F]

Not declaring would have given the Zulu another 40+, probably 50+ turns of build up

This is where I think you're being overoptimistic. Commodore has not been making noises about pressing the attack immediately, without metal units or ballistaphants to do it with; instead he's reverting to a more sensible plan of expansion. But he was already indicating in his thread that he planned to attack as soon as he felt able to. As such, no such extra buildup window existed, regardless of whether the units were killed or not.

But a chariot and warrior? They aren't even worth the 45 hammers they cost now, against impi and axes.

This, on the other hand, is a valid point. In the end, it probably makes no difference whether the units were killed or not. Even if it doesn't delay Commodore's next offensive, there could be some psychological value there. Sending a warning message might not be as useful as potentially luring Commodore into a sense of complacency, until such time as the gains are more worthwhile.

[SadGit]

Well Com doesnt know that Scooter declared on the lurkers:
We're in third in post count and I just don't know how we'll manage to surpass Lewwyn and Pindicooter.
with luck he might grab second and consider it a moral win

[Krill]

So...three wars in 3 days. Good timing...

[MindyMcCready]

Lurker protocol question: Would it be too much to ask Commodore what the pros and cons are of accepting the Scooter cease fire?

[Zed-F]

Pro: nothing
Con: disincentive for annoying Scooter with peace offers every turn that Scooter won't take
What's your reason for wanting to ask him rather than just seeing how things settle out?

[novice]

Plako vs. Lewwyn vs. Serdoa vs. CFC/Nakor in the final showdown, you heard it here first folks (Serdoa is the Oracle, so he's probably Buddhism as well).

Not a bad tip.

[MindyMcCready]

Cease fire means you can't enter each others territory, right?

Pro:
-Keeps his ivory hidden.
-Keeps impis out of his land from pillaging. Scooter has pretty much indicated that he won't likely go on a pillaging rampage. Commodore suspects Scooter's passivity but doesn't actually know his intent.
-Gives Scooter a false sense of security. He doesn't trust Commodore at all but he might just be a little more tempted by the economic techs. Scooter's just dying to switch to economic development which is why he keeps offering. I think that he *wants* to believe that he can develop in peace and have a chance to win the game.
-Allows Commodore to build in relative peace while he's at a relative military disadvantage. Maybe get Iron researched and hooked up?
Con:
-Not too much. They can both declare, pink dot or whatever anytime they want.
-Temporary personal dishonour to Commodore?

At face value this question appears to be pretty safe, but I have to admit that my asking is in part because that's what I'd want him to do --> thus influencing the game. I won't be asking it unless the lurkers overwhelmingly think that it's a safe question.