(May 15th, 2013, 20:06)HidingKneel Wrote: Also, might as well wait until we have that marble connected. Which should probably be our first tech after Code of Laws? (I'm guessing we'll get there around T70?)
Yeah, marble's what changes this from an ok idea to a good one. Not sure what the tech path is actually looking like anymore, though!
But Fishing/Masonry should come in right before we plant the HT contender, yes. That site is only a parasite on the capital without those techs (and perhaps Sailing too? Hopefully we find more seas, to make that worthwhile).
Quote:We have easy access to corn, rice, and wheat. Deruptus looks very appealing. I think we should sink hammers into that in the capital when we grow to the happy cap (unless we need warriors).
Moved Louie SW. I want to take a gander (har!) from the plains hill E of the wheat, and figure out how best to claim that site.
After that, heading back to the capital to join the garrison.
Agreed, that makes Dereptus very sexy. Also...is that a second Heron Throne seafood I see? A second crab, or something new?
(May 15th, 2013, 20:35)Mardoc Wrote: Also...is that a second Heron Throne seafood I see? A second crab, or something new?
Clams! So, that site will be even better.
Quote:But Fishing/Masonry should come in right before we plant the HT contender, yes. That site is only a parasite on the capital without those techs (and perhaps Sailing too? Hopefully we find more seas, to make that worthwhile).
We want fishing and masonry (and marble connected) on founding, to start the Heron Throne right away.
Sailing can wait until we're ready to build a lighthouse (if not longer). By my count, the Heron throne will take 12 turns if we've got marble connected: three turns at size 1 with just 2 hammers from the city itself (15 hammers with multipliers),
three turns at size 2 working corn and a mined grass hill (5 hpt without multipliers, total of 36), and then six more turns working two mined grass hills (8 htp without multipliers, comes out to 120). After that, we'll want to build two workboats (maybe that's an extra four turns there?) before we're ready to make use of Sailing.
(May 15th, 2013, 20:06)HidingKneel Wrote: Yeah, marble's what changes this from an ok idea to a good one. Not sure what the tech path is actually looking like anymore, though!
Not sure myself. Rough plan for now is
mining -> exploration -> chants -> mysticism -> WotE -> BW -> AH -> festivals -> education -> code of laws -> masonry -> construction -> fishing
but I could imagine moving all kinds of things around. I'm tempted to put BW before WotE: if we're aiming to get our fourth city out ASAP, the capital won't be ready to make use of the increased happy cap right away, but we could immediately benefit from improved dyes. Not sure it'll make that much of a difference, though (we'll want to build farms up north before improving the dyes anyway), and I'd really like to make sure we land the religion ourselves. And maybe it'll be worth it to grow the capital right away.
As for Festivals: there's no point in teching it before we're ready to use it, and I don't have a good sense of that. Any thoughts on where (if anywhere) we want to generate that bard? One possibility is at the dyes site, if we want a good buffer of culture vs. the Grigori (and maybe Kuriotates). Advantage is that the city will be on its feet reasonably early, which offsets the fact that it isn't very hammer-heavy (chopping jungle doesn't give any hammers, right?) But I could see that city at size 5, working two dyes, two grass hill mines and cows, putting out 9 hpt: that builds a Carnival in 9 turns, which gets us a great bard 32 turns from when we start.
(Gave it a try in the sandbox. The bard comes in around T85... which is not so great. Sanitation looked like a good tech on T70, and would have taken 5 turns. I assume the results just get worse if we build elsewhere...)
Hmm... even prioritizing the bard in city #3 only gets it in a few turns earlier. To get good value out of the drama bard, I think we want it earlier than that... maybe shortly before T70. That's doable in city #2, if we tech festivals right away after exploration and start a carnival right after founding. The carnival costs 80 hammers: that's two warriors and a worker, which would be very handy at that point. It also delays our early tech path by about 5 turns (which is not too bad: Kilmorph on T45 is pretty well timed to take advantage of the extra happy in capital right after pushing out third settler).
Not ideal to be generating our extra culture in the Kilmorph holy city. Though the delay means that city #2 is less likely to be the holy city: city #3 ought to have a decent chance, as well. And once we bulb drama, culture won't be a big issue anyway.
Getting sanitation and code of laws to come in at roughly the same time is pretty nice.
There's not too much that can be done to speed a GBard, the main limit is the 22 turns of working the Bard specialist. Rather than push Festivals super early, or delay Sanitation overly long, I'd rather also build an EC and work a Sage for a while. It's a gamble, but an Academy in a Dereptus capital is something we'll want sooner or later anyway. If you get the Sage - probably just hand research Drama at that point.
Besides, although we want a Bard for GP#1, GP#2 should really be a Sage, and #3 a Prophet, and then we'll want Golden Ages - so having a lot of specialist slots close together is handy. I think I like the dyes city for this, because it's got the most food potential and hence would make a decent long-term NE city.
I would still research WotE before bronze. I think it's going to benefit our economy more, between letting us work more aristofarms and directly providing gold. No, jungle chops are only worth improved tile yield.
Random note - if you ever have extra worker turns, build mines. That'll help once we pop the WS - and we have Earth mana, so there's always a chance of new metals.
Anyway, that'll be my last comments til I'm back, so good luck!
You only get metal Los if you are working that tile, btw
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
That's not a bad spot he's standing on. It's a little distant from the capital, and suffers a shortage of production in the first ring.
But we want that northern hill in our culture anyway for the Heron throne plan. So maybe we look to plant city #5 or #6 there, and pop the borders with a thane before too long.
This would have been an awesome event to get say, thirty turns from now: free border pops! As it is, it only hurts us. The capital's hardly got any use for +10 culture. We don't have any inflation yet, so -3% isn't going to do us much good (unless inflation goes negative? ) So it's a choice between two bad options: +3% inflation (which we won't feel for a long time, but will eventually cost us) or -10 gold. I went with the +3% inflation: losing 10 gold would have brought us to empty vaults before getting our gems improved, which means we'd either have to wait to grow to size 5 (costly) or we'd have to adjust the slider to make up the difference (half a turn of teching, which would mean workers idling waiting for mining, commerce from gems a turn later, ...).
Louie stopped at the other plains hill on the way home:
Dangerous world out there! I sent him back the way he came. Should be back in my territory soon, unless there's a giant spider out there.
Grew to size 4 at EOT, and finished Huey 2.0 in the capital:
Two turns to grow to size 5. I'll have the incense connected next turn. Assuming I work that, we don't have enough production to get another warrior out before hitting the happy cap. I think I'll gamble that we can get away with three of them before settling city #2 (which can build more while growing), and sink two turns worth of hammers into the Deruptus instead. Hope the barbs don't make me regret that.
I don't think the drama bard plan is a good one. Even if we run multiple specialists, it doesn't get until after we'd probably have wanted to research sanitation ourselves. I say that we instead aim instead for a sage: once Kilmorph gets in, city #2 will need a few turns to grow to its new happy cap, during which time we can easily finish an elder council there. That'll get a great sage out around T70, which we can use for an academy in the capital.
So let's fit drama (or sanitation, if the drama bard is taken) into the tech path.
We run a merchant specialist. It'll take us longer to get the techs/buildings for this, but we can make up for it with the ability to run two of them (temple of Kilmorph/market). I think the specialist will arrive at around the same time as Code of Laws, if we go Drama first, and we use it to bulb currency. Then we either revolt into Aristocracy/Apprenticeship/Consumption, or we tech Arete so we can replace Apprenceship with Arete.
![[Image: Civ4_Screen_Shot0003.jpg]](http://s17.postimg.org/z1x7vbaen/Civ4_Screen_Shot0003.jpg)
![[Image: Civ4_Screen_Shot0005.jpg]](http://s17.postimg.org/o50hkad0v/Civ4_Screen_Shot0005.jpg)
![[Image: Civ4_Screen_Shot0000.jpg]](http://s7.postimg.org/z7jmraq8b/Civ4_Screen_Shot0000.jpg)
) So it's a choice between two bad options: +3% inflation (which we won't feel for a long time, but will eventually cost us) or -10 gold. I went with the +3% inflation: losing 10 gold would have brought us to empty vaults before getting our gems improved, which means we'd either have to wait to grow to size 5 (costly) or we'd have to adjust the slider to make up the difference (half a turn of teching, which would mean workers idling waiting for mining, commerce from gems a turn later, ...). ![[Image: Civ4_Screen_Shot0001.jpg]](http://s7.postimg.org/4rdpt64p7/Civ4_Screen_Shot0001.jpg)
![[Image: Civ4_Screen_Shot0002.jpg]](http://s7.postimg.org/9rb614abv/Civ4_Screen_Shot0002.jpg)
