[spoilers] DTG thinks filthy casuals are ruining Realms Beyond

[picklepikkl]

Definitely 1SW for the Quechua move.

Regarding your theory... I think you're right, and I really hope so, because that would imply that we're in a really good group. Consider: neither Elkad nor NC have strong expansion traits (though NC is Aggressive), so we're set to be the local power. Over in group 1, Julius Caesar of Russia and Genghis Khan of Zulu, two setups that I think are very good, are together to act as checks on one another (assuming Impi rush doesn't just win the game). In group 3, everyone has an expansion trait of some kind, and group 4 has Sury of India and Joao of Khmer, again two strong expansion pairings. Basically, ours is the only group where exactly one civ/leader pair feels significantly better than others from an expansion perspective; if we can in fact leverage that, we'd be poised to dominate them in the midgame and be in a really good position against other groups.

In other news, I keep having dreams about this game.

[DTG]

I haven't finished the turn yet, but here's what we have so far:






In brief:

1. City #2's site will involve Pigs and Sheep, although where exactly is still TBD.
   
2. The Lion is limiting our movement options. I think I'd prefer to wait a turn, rather than to waste the free barb win.

With regards to #1, I'll run a few tests later today. Settling 1N of the Sheep looks safest. I wonder if we should try to grab Buddhism/Hinduism to pop borders?

Thinking out loud, the Mysticism civs are:

• Arabs (+ TW, leader = Shaka/Stardoor)
  
• Korea (+ Mining, leader = Brennus/Nicolae)
  
• India (+ Mining, leader = Sury/pindicator)
  
• Aztecs (+ Hunting, leader = Wang/Nyles)
  
• Inca (+ Agriculture, leader = Mao/us)

Let's assume that everyone (barring Eikad, maybe) needed Hunting + Agriculture to set their capitals up.

Noob plays aside, no-one will grab a religion before founding their second city. That means Exapnsive/Imperialistic leaders will have the option to take it before the others (so in this list, Expansive leaders). pindicator also has little reason to go after an early religion, since he is Creative. That would leave:

• Arabs (+ TW, leader = Shaka/Stardoor)
  
• Aztecs (+ Hunting, leader = Wang/Nyles)
  
• Inca (+ Agriculture, leader = Mao/us)

It's hard to read the other two, but Stardoor is new and may prefer the safer play for BW and rely on AGG Barracks for border pops. OTOH, Madrassas lend themselves to an early Great Prophet. Nyles has no cheap sources of culture and so an early religion would be very attractive for him, I think.

OFC, even ignoring the risk that we don't land a religion at all, the downside of all this is that this will slow our reaching BW and Pottery and hence development.

I'll think about it some more.

[DTG]

Meditation attempt:













Roading this way (rather than via the tiles directly south of our capital) lets us improve the Sheep (then other tiles) one turn sooner, and will be better for claiming the Cow/Fish area. It does leave our road network a bit exposed until we get a culture expansion, though, so an early religion would be good in that regard.

Going to Meditation would mean switching techs on T21, to get it in the second city ASAP.

We're building the earliest possible Settler (at least, whilst growing to size 3) which is out on T28 and founds on T30. I suppose other Expansive teams could settle on T29, but T30 seems more realistic if our starts are roughly balanced. We are going to be fast, anyway.

Workers still had plenty to do in my sim. We improve the Pigs, and by the time that we move the Workers back a third Settler is nearly done.

I prioritized Fishing in this test, because we can use the 2C from the Lake to help regain beakers lost on Meditation and the second Settler will be ready soon after the Pigs is improved (i.e. we'll likely want to use Workers to improve an animal or grain, not mine or cottage). City #2 will also work a Lake at size 3.

So, in short, I'm quite keen on going to Meditation at the moment, but there is going to be some finger crossing involved and if someone wants Buddhism in their capital then there is little we can do to beat that. Which would suck.

----

Updated sandbox is here.

[picklepikkl]

Now THERE'S a city site! I support the proposed founding location; in a close-quarters situation like this, I definitely want the hill tile on our side. Holding the Scout in place seems fine too.

Regarding Plan Meditation... I think we have pretty good odds, doing it your way. My quick survey of other Pitbosses have shown people fairly reluctant to grab religion until the development techs are in. My own issue with the plan is the military implications; if someone sends a single solitary axe at us, we're probably dead.

[DTG]

Regarding Plan Meditation... I think we have pretty good odds, doing it your way. My quick survey of other Pitbosses have shown people fairly reluctant to grab religion until the development techs are in. My own issue with the plan is the military implications; if someone sends a single solitary axe at us, we're probably dead.

Yep, we need to be careful and keep an eye on power, etc. I suppose we should fit Archery in there at some point as well and react if we spot that Eikad or Nicolae gain a source of Copper. I'm not 100% wedded to Fishing, and a lot can change in 10 turns...

Regardless, our Quecha is currently 6(!) tiles away from Eikad's capital. I uncovered this:







If we can get our Scout inside of Eikad's borders, move through without causing disruption, and get a 10 turn peace, then that would be pretty good for us. It'd give us enough time to set up and secure City #2, as long as Nicolae doesn't stop by to bother us. I think it'd be a pretty good deal for Eikad too: he has to be worried about falling even further behind, and this would let us both skimp a bit on military.

[Ruff_Hi]

And if we are in his borders, we won't need to worry about barbs for a bit (hopefully).

I like that sheep / pig site!

[picklepikkl]

Yeah, I really like the idea of taking a mechanics-enforced NAP against Elkad and scouting into the bargain. Just remember the rule about turn splits in Pitboss; if there is particular timing necessary out of your play window, I can pick up the relevant turns.

Archery is super cheap in RTR, but I'm unhappy about all the techs that might need to be squeezed in. I want granaries and cottages! Gotta get that GNP!

(just pretend that hammer emoticon is instead, I don't know, weaving or bartering or whatever else cottages do. I'm not warmongering, I'm greedy)

[DTG]

[Ruff_Hi]

Our 1N of Sheep city site is closer to use than Mr Yellow ... but it is going to but a crimp in his city-expansion-towards-us options. Only valid spot for him to pick up the fist would be 1S of Cow / 1W of fish. I don't have any problem with that . With our city being a Holy City, he will lost that spot in 20-ish turns too.

Re us invading his land ... who moved first last turn? If it was us, then we should move first this turn and cross his city. It will also give us visibility of his city square so that we can see what he has built.

[picklepikkl]

We played after Elkad last turn, so we need to again this turn to preserve the turn split.

Keep in mind that he probably has a warrior by now, and our scout might get whacked.