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Ok after understanding what's going on with the Rego-WK thing, I'm going to be the jerk and come out and say this. What they are doing is unacceptable and borderline cheating. I am in favor of intervention by GES and giving a warning to Regoarrar in particular for bending the rules in his favor. I think the backlines city plant is a scummy move, but the worker gifts I think should be treated as rule violations. I also believe both are violating the "act in good faith" rule as well.
What are other lurkers' opinions on this? I am very much in favor of GES intervening.
Edit: Note that I'm not specifically trying to call out Regoarrar as more in violation than WK - as my comment kind of unintentionally reads that way. I said "warning to Regoarrar" due to the fact that WK will soon be out of the game and will not really matter.
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scooter Wrote:What they are doing is unacceptable and borderline cheating. I am in favor of intervention by GES and giving a warning to Regoarrar in particular for bending the rules in his favor. I think the backlines city plant is a scummy move, but the worker gifts I think should be treated as rule violations. I also believe both are violating the "act in good faith" rule as well.
What are other lurkers' opinions on this? I am very much in favor of GES intervening.
+1
Especially considering that the victim of this behavior, plako, had the opportunity to legitimately capture a settler from (absent) WarlordDr and didn't. Rego is going out of his way to obtain an unfair advantage that Plako went out of his way to avoid(early enough to be quite significant, even.)
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I've actually already sent WK an email on this topic.
Completed: SG2-Wonders or Else!; SG3-Monarch Can't Hold Me; WW3-Surviving Wolf; PBEM3-Replacement for Timmy of Khmer; PBEM11-Screwed Up Huayna Capac of Zulu; PBEM19-GES, Roland & Friends (Mansa of Egypt); SG4-Immortality Scares Me
Bobchillingworth
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scooter Wrote:Ok after understanding what's going on with the Rego-WK thing, I'm going to be the jerk and come out and say this. What they are doing is unacceptable and borderline cheating. I am in favor of intervention by GES and giving a warning to Regoarrar in particular for bending the rules in his favor. I think the backlines city plant is a scummy move, but the worker gifts I think should be treated as rule violations. I also believe both are violating the "act in good faith" rule as well.
What are other lurkers' opinions on this? I am very much in favor of GES intervening.
Well, to be fair, at least for the worker-gifting there's quite a lot of precedent for it in these games, including in Pitboss mode (I personally got a few free workers from France in PB3 in a very similar context to what is being discussed for this game, and nobody cared). I can think of at least a couple prominent examples of backlines city-gifting occurring or at least being discussed as well, although only in PBEM games (such as your offer to Dazed in PBEM 7). So Rego & WK aren't necessarily violating any long-held community standards here, and I can see how they might not think twice before going through with their plans.
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The more I've thought about it, the more I think the worker gifting is a violation of the rules as written.
If the context were different, I could maybe see it. If WK and Rego had been close allies all game who were fighting a common enemy, or the game was a 2 v 1 situation or something with clear lines drawn, it would be different. Here, Rego just happens to be next to WK.
I don't think any of the other 8 players would appreciate Rego getting four free workers, and that definitely is an "artificial" move that "unbalances" the game.
Completed: SG2-Wonders or Else!; SG3-Monarch Can't Hold Me; WW3-Surviving Wolf; PBEM3-Replacement for Timmy of Khmer; PBEM11-Screwed Up Huayna Capac of Zulu; PBEM19-GES, Roland & Friends (Mansa of Egypt); SG4-Immortality Scares Me
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Bobchillingworth Wrote:Well, to be fair, at least for the worker-gifting there's quite a lot of precedent for it in these games, including in Pitboss mode (I personally got a few free workers from France in PB3 in a very similar context to what is being discussed for this game, and nobody cared). I can think of at least a couple prominent examples of backlines city-gifting occurring or at least being discussed as well, although only in PBEM games (such as your offer to Dazed in PBEM 7). So Rego & WK aren't necessarily violating any long-held community standards here, and I can see how they might not think twice before going through with their plans.
Well, PB3 also had very clear diplo lines with teams trying to kill France, and teams trying to not kill France: that was more like a 2-team game. And I don't think we even knew you were getting workers off of France.
Also, I think France had more of a reason to be angry at us. Although WK's played a much better game than they did; there was no reason that a 5-chariot rush should have worked the way it did once they popped copper in Paris.
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Bobchillingworth Wrote:Well, to be fair, at least for the worker-gifting there's quite a lot of precedent for it in these games, including in Pitboss mode (I personally got a few free workers from France in PB3 in a very similar context to what is being discussed for this game, and nobody cared). I can think of at least a couple prominent examples of backlines city-gifting occurring or at least being discussed as well, although only in PBEM games (such as your offer to Dazed in PBEM 7). So Rego & WK aren't necessarily violating any long-held community standards here, and I can see how they might not think twice before going through with their plans.
I can't really comment on PB3 fairly as I wasn't closely following that game, but GES's comments about how it'd be different (though still slightly uncool) if Rego was actually involved in the conflict rings true to me.
The PBEM7 example is quite different - as I was the one fighting Dazed, so me making an offer to him is not really close to WK handing stuff to an uninvolved 3rd party just to spite the guy he's fighting. I don't think Regoarrar is a scummy player or anything, but he definitely has a history of pushing the "good faith" and "it's technically not illegal!" boundary as hard as he possibly can, and it feels like more of the same in this situation.
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Why is the Lurker Behavior thread closed? I was going to comment on Ellimist's question, although it's not a big deal. There may be more questions later though?
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I wanted it closed for a while but forgot to do it because players are allowed to see it, but it is easy to forget that. If someone has a question about the Lurker COC, just bring it up here.
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Thanks for answering @ lurker COC.
Under the current rules, could we ask a less specific question to obtain similar info? For example, "how many cities are you planning to settle in the next several turns?"
The reason I'm asking now, rather than earlier, is that I don't believe there are any "secret race" situations currently ongoing.
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