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[Gold Ergo Sum]

You can easily find the "ban list" in a post that Tatan started on either the first page of this forum, or top of the second page. It bans all civs/leaders that were used X amount of times in RB games. Its aim isn't solely to balance overpowered leaders, but to bring in some fresh blood into these games, so that the same old leaders/civs don't keep popping up over and over again. Consider it more of a variant than an attempt to balance.

As for legislating pauses, past history seems to indicate to those more experienced in RB games than me that this is in fact quite necessary.

[Lord Parkin]

You can easily find the "ban list" in a post that Tatan started on either the first page of this forum, or top of the second page. It bans all civs/leaders that were used X amount of times in RB games.

Okay, I think I found the thread, but I didn't find what "X" was. Are we using a specific number (2, 3, 4, 5)?

Its aim isn't solely to balance overpowered leaders, but to bring in some fresh blood into these games, so that the same old leaders/civs don't keep popping up over and over again. Consider it more of a variant than an attempt to balance.

Ok. Well if that's the case, then I would have thought a neater variant might be to limit the leader and civ choices to ONLY those that have NEVER been used in the 5 games according to Tatan's list. I think that would be kind of cool.

As for legislating pauses, past history seems to indicate to those more experienced in RB games than me that this is in fact quite necessary.

Ok, if you say so. I've never had many problems with pausing even right into the late game in the multiple large-scale pitbosses that I've played. But maybe that's just the group of players I play with, or something.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

I think he just listed all leaders that had been chosen like 3 times and, and same for civs, but I don't remember the exact numbers.

I suggested adding Vicky and Huayna Capac, that way, if someone really wants Financial, they have to choose Protective as well.

And I'm not playing, so you guys do whatever you want, although the general consensus seems to be not to just use unrestricted choose of leaders/civs.

[regoarrarr]

Just to be clear - I'm not going to sign up on my own, though I may be a ded. lurker for sunrise if he decides to sign up

[Adlain]

1. Tatan's Leader/Civ Ban List (plus Huayna Capac & Vicky): Fine with or without this
2. Starting Unit of Civs (Default or Uniform): Default
3. Game speed: Normal
4. Map wrap: Dont mind aslong as known before Civ Choice
5. Game difficulty: Monarch
6. Barbarians: On
7. Screenshots/Map Trades Allowed at: 1. Alphabet 2. Paper 3. Always 4. Never: Answer: 1
8. No Contact until: 1. Met In-game 2. Brokered by Civ who directly met other Civ: Answer: 1
9. Lurkers Code of Conduct: Dont mind etherway
10. Ivory Allowed?: Yes
11. Number of Pauses: 1

[plako]

Okay, I think I found the thread, but I didn't find what "X" was. Are we using a specific number (2, 3, 4, 5)?

In PBEM11 following civs were banned:
India
Inca
Byzantium
Mali
Ottomans
Rome
HRE
Maya

I would add Netherlands to the list.

Correspondingly following leaders were banned:
Willem (Fin/Cre),
Pacal (Exp/Fin),
Suryavarman (Cre/Exp),
Peter (Exp/Phi),
Pericles (Cre/Phi),
Mehmed (Org/Exp),
Gandhi (Spi/Phi),
Darius (Fin/Org),
Elizabeth (Fin/Phi),
Ragnar (Agg/Fin),
Zara (Cre/Org),
Mansa (Fin/Spi),
Kublai (Agg/Cre),
Hatshesphut (Cre/Spi),
Joao (Exp/Imp),
Hannibal (Chm/Fin)

I would add Vicky and Hyuana to the list or alternatively only ban Willem, Pacal and Sury.

Ok. Well if that's the case, then I would have thought a neater variant might be to limit the leader and civ choices to ONLY those that have NEVER been used in the 5 games according to Tatan's list. I think that would be kind of cool.

At least nation list would be very short so I think this would be limiting a bit too much.

[Locke]

OK I will answer this for our team.

1. Tatan's Leader/Civ Ban List (plus Huayna Capac & Vicky)
2. Starting Unit of Civs (Default or Uniform)
3. Game speed
4. Map wrap
5. Game difficulty
6. Barbarians
7. Screenshots/Map Trades Allowed at: 1. Alphabet 2. Paper 3. Always 4. Never
8. No Contact until: 1. Met In-game 2. Brokered by Civ who directly met other Civ
9. Lurkers Code of Conduct
10. Ivory Allowed?
11. Number of Pauses
12. PLAYERS!
13. TEAMMATES!
14. Who arbitrates disputes?
15. Number of Civs
16. ????

1) #1 choice is no limits on picks with snake pick. #2 choice is snake pick with best leaders out. I dont like this because all best leaders are gone. That's not fun. But I vote for this over crazy auction, do not want auction.

2) Do not understand this question. Default starting unit I think?

3) Normal game speed. Quick is second best option. Rest are to slow.

4) I dont care about map wrap.

5) Something in the middle for difficulty. Dont care if its Noble or Prince or Monrach.

6) No barbs is better. I see people get free city from barbs and that's not fair.

7) Map trade at Paper cause that's how it is in the game.

8) Contact when you meet people in game. Trade contact is silly.

9) What is lurker code of conduct? I dont understand.

10) Do not allow ivory. Elephants are too strong. Take off map or dont let people build elephatns.

11) I dont care about pauses. Should not be many if you have a number.Lots of pauses slow down game to much. (Then it become PBEM lol.)

12) 13) I dont think we need to vote on this.

14) I thought you were going to settle disputes. Arent you the organizer guy?

Dont care about the rest. Hope game starts soon.

[Lord Parkin]

After some further thought, here's one other possible variant to throw in there: I'd be happy with just banning all Financial leaders (with the possible exception of Wang Kon). That way everyone's on an even ground in picking a non-Financial leader, knowing that no-one else can get one either (possibly unless they pick Protective as well).

Maybe it's just me, but for a no-tech trading game I really don't value Expansive and Creative on the same tier as Financial - Financial is far and away the best trait for this variant. So I think it's more important to either exclude all the Financial leaders (or all but Wang Kon), or allow all of them. Otherwise it's too unbalanced for the few folks who don't end up with Financial.

Personally my preference is very much in the direction of banning all Financial leaders (or all except Wang Kon), and leaving all the others open. As for civs, I'd be happy to either allow them all or go with plako's exclusion list:

In PBEM11 following civs were banned:
India
Inca
Byzantium
Mali
Ottomans
Rome
HRE
Maya

I would add Netherlands to the list.

Any thoughts or comments are very welcome.

[Krill]

Lesson from PBEM7: If you just ban Fin then Exp becomes the next uber trait. Ban Exp and then Cre, so on and so forth.

[Lord Parkin]

They don't become "uber" traits like Financial though. And I don't even consider them that good by themselves. (I'd be happy to back that up by not picking either an Expansive or Creative leader if Financial is banned. )