RBPBEM FfH V [SPOILERS] Sareln of the Amurites

[NobleHelium]

Are you going to change your dotmap in accordance with this new information?

[Sareln]

Are you going to change your dotmap in accordance with this new information?

Copper was under one of the cities already, I'm fine with planting on the copper to make it unpillageable (especially pertinent with wolf riders running around). So the dotmap doesn't change. What might is the founding order. My two candidates are the copper city or the wines/tomb city. Wines/Tomb is a commerce/teching heavy move. Copper is a militarily defensive move. Clan hasn't clarified their intentions, but the lack of sound on whether or not they accept the deal is worrisome, and I'll need to go with the defensive move if I have strong suspicion to believe that they're coming for me. I should work out some numbers later on tonight.

[Sareln]

YACWB:

Trading scuttlebutt about the Clan.

(2:55:46 PM) Sareln: ah, okay
(2:55:48 PM) Sareln: that's not so bad
(2:55:57 PM) Sareln: any fun news from your side of the world?
(2:56:04 PM) BobChllingsworth: nope
(2:56:08 PM) BobChllingsworth: Orthus next turn, I think
(2:56:16 PM) BobChllingsworth: I forget what turn we're on :P
(2:56:17 PM) Sareln: Yeah, EoT 50
(2:56:24 PM) Sareln: 49 has passed through me
(2:56:29 PM) BobChllingsworth: ah, k
(2:56:42 PM) BobChllingsworth: man I hope he shows up next to me
(2:56:50 PM) Sareln: really?
(2:56:56 PM) BobChllingsworth: Got a CIII Shock warrior all ready for him
(2:57:10 PM) Sareln: you're not worried the clan will cover him with a wolf-rider and then a gobbo archer?
(2:57:24 PM) Sareln: esp. since turn order is Iskender->barb->Clan->you
(2:57:49 PM) BobChllingsworth: I was, but they're leaving for greener pastures... or jungles. Whatever.
(2:57:57 PM) Sareln: hmm
(2:58:01 PM) Sareln: ominous
(2:58:57 PM) Sareln: (haven't hard a peep out of Tredje & Mardoc for several turns now)
(2:59:00 PM) Sareln: *heard
(2:59:12 PM) BobChllingsworth: He's hard to reach. He finally got me on chat today.
(3:00:31 PM) BobChllingsworth: His play is... odd, but evidentally the promise that I won't settle any more cities any closer to him was enough to appease him
(3:01:15 PM) Sareln: hmm
(3:01:18 PM) Sareln: I guess we'll see

[NobleHelium]

Copper was under one of the cities already, I'm fine with planting on the copper to make it unpillageable (especially pertinent with wolf riders running around). So the dotmap doesn't change. What might is the founding order. My two candidates are the copper city or the wines/tomb city. Wines/Tomb is a commerce/teching heavy move. Copper is a militarily defensive move. Clan hasn't clarified their intentions, but the lack of sound on whether or not they accept the deal is worrisome, and I'll need to go with the defensive move if I have strong suspicion to believe that they're coming for me. I should work out some numbers later on tonight.

You'd really sacrifice the tile yield for pillage protection? Pillaging copper is weaker in FFH because your units retain the bronze promotion and you can continue building axes/swords. I was thinking you would change the city placement by planting a city north of your light blue filler dot, which gets sugars for food and the copper/gems. Then you can plant another city NE of the copper, which gets three flood plains, two food resources, as well as a couple hills for production, and you can borrow the copper.

The problem with this setup of course is that you'd have to get Bronze Working to chop out the sugars for food, and it delays actually getting copper (will need a monument as well as a mine first). You'd need to get Bronze Working to get bronze weapons anyway, though.

[Sareln]

You'd really sacrifice the tile yield for pillage protection? Pillaging copper is weaker in FFH because your units retain the bronze promotion and you can continue building axes/swords. I was thinking you would change the city placement by planting a city north of your light blue filler dot, which gets sugars for food and the copper/gems. Then you can plant another city NE of the copper, which gets three flood plains, two food resources, as well as a couple hills for production, and you can borrow the copper.

The problem with this setup of course is that you'd have to get Bronze Working to chop out the sugars for food, and it delays actually getting copper (will need a monument as well as a mine first). You'd need to get Bronze Working to get bronze weapons anyway, though.

I "can't" plant NE of the copper without violating the agreement I've come to with the Clan. You're right in that the agreement hasn't been ratified, and the Clan doesn't appear to be very responsive to me right now, so why should I plan around following the agreement? The second, stronger argument: Planting on the copper saves me 4 worker turns, plus however much time it takes to get the copper hookup to the capital (not that long, I only need to road to the river right? Or do I need fishing to trade along rivers?). The plan you put forward for a NE city would delay copper hookup until I've finished a monument, waited the 3 turns, and then the 4 worker turns. So assuming base production of 4, that's 10 turns for the 40 hammer monument. No, if I'm going for copper, I will need it ASAP and that means founding on the resource.

[NobleHelium]

Roading to the river should be sufficient, yeah. Fishing should only be required for river trading outside borders. Connecting to the capital is not part of the equation of saving time/worker turns on a copper plant vs not a copper plant, since you'll need to connect to the capital in both cases.

[Sareln]

Roading to the river should be sufficient, yeah. Fishing should only be required for river trading outside borders. Connecting to the capital is not part of the equation of saving time/worker turns on a copper plant vs not a copper plant, since you'll need to connect to the capital in both cases.

Sorry that sounded harsh. Just in a hurry. Thanks for all the input. The NE site also conflicts with the settling deal I *did* sign with the Sidar. does copper need to be hooked up to the trade network for me to use it in the city of origin? Eg. I plant the city on the copper, have bronze working, will I be able to get bronze warriors in that city?

[Mist]

Yes. You'll also get it on any city on that river ( or any other river connected by road to this one ) without need for Fishing. Fishing is only needed to cross rivers under foreign control.

[Sareln]

Yes. You'll also get it on any city on that river ( or any other river connected by road to this one ) without need for Fishing. Fishing is only needed to cross rivers under foreign control.

Great. What do you think of the dotmap/settling agreements Mist? Too constricting for your tastes?

[Mist]

Well, it makes the best use of arguably cramped location. I'd make one change in light of Clan's likely hostility - move copper city ( green dot ) 1SW to a hill and scrap the filler city ( gray dot ) altogether. Two reasons :
*)You will want all the defence you can pull there,
*)Move will be food neutral ( fp, bananas exchanged for two sugars ) and hammer positive ( hill+two deserts for plains hill+two hills ). It would turn the city into long term good unit pump.