[SPOILERS] ARRR Ye Scurvy Dogs! Hannah the Irin

[Mardoc]

Ah, I believe I understand now. So you can only get the benefit of trade if you personally have knowledge of and tech for a trade route, or a route controlled by a civ not at war with you. So Mr. Yellow would have to have Sailing and defogged the coast from Thoth to me to have trade, even if Thoth weren't at war with him.

If we both had a coastal route defogged, but I had Sailing and he didn't, then I could get the benefit and he could not.

But if a road were to appear in neutral territory between us, that he'd defogged, then he'd have trade, but I wouldn't unless I defogged it myself.

And therefore, my connection to Mr. Yellow is dependent on their borders touching; so likely if Thoth captures another city and breaks that, so will the trade. If I manage to get visibility up there somehow (say, if I buy Mr. Yellow's map), then that won't be required any more.

[NobleHelium]

If Thoth captures another city and causes the continuity of the borders to break, it should kill the trade, yeah.

[Mardoc]

City #5 is founded, and named Mindphasr.



Now that OO is nearly in, I decided not to build a monument here, but instead to hopefully be able to build missionaries somewhere with lots of hammers and spread it around. Next turn, the scouting workboat should settle down and become Mindphasr's cove. I'm working on a cheap Market for the moment, and will have to come up with something useful to build here while Mindphasr grows. Maybe it's time to pass the workboat/warrior torch up the coast and let Phoenix and Phiber Optik help satisfy my worker/settler quotas.

Similarly, MafiaBoy finishes its monument this turn and will need projects to work on while it grows. Right now, I'm leaning toward a market and maybe a few more pieces of infrastructure. Hopefully it'll soon be the the point of being able to pump out missionaries, as well.

In the east, my goal for expansion remains the same as before - these two cities, plus perhaps that uncharted island. I will have to build a work boat or two for exploring over here once Captain Crunch finishes the next settler, or else maybe get them out now from Phoenix and Phiber Optik and start them sailing.

So, at the moment, I need three quick settlers to grab these stretch sites, then three more slightly more leisurely to fill in my backlines, then it'll hopefully be a good time to settle overseas.

That'll double the size of my empire, so it'll be time to reassess. Maybe it makes sense to get a couple Spring adepts working and colonize the middle desert; floodplains + wheat + plains can actually make a decent city or two out of it, in addition to helping my strategic weakness to a desert-walking strike. Anyone know what happens if you Spring a Floodplain? Does it add a food and stay floodplains, or become a normal plains, or simply refuse to cast the spell? I would like to be able to deny Thoth the use of them in wartime, but only if it doesn't turn a nice 4/0/4 farm into a 2/0/4 farm.

Or, maybe it'll be time to take half or all of the Malakim empire. Or, heck, there's a lot of possibilities, all of which will be easier as the snowball ramps up.

Three turns until the next settler finishes; I know it should go either towards the site north of Mindphasr (chosen for the hill), or to city8 in the east, but so far I haven't decided which is higher priority. I'm actually leaning toward city8, so as not to startle Thoth until I have my copper back or he's gotten hopelessly enmeshed with Mr./Sir Yellow.



So far, Sir Yellow's hanging in there, no lost cities and he still owns my copper. I checked and realized I'm up to 8 gold/turn unit maintenance, so yes, it was time to stop my warrior spam for the moment anyway, with 15 warriors on hand. I should get those costs under control as I build up more cities to take the load.

[DaveV]

Anyone know what happens if you Spring a Floodplain?

Can't be done. The Spring button goes inactive when the adept is sitting on a floodplain, just as if you were on some other non-desert tile.

[Mardoc]

Can't be done. The Spring button goes inactive when the adept is sitting on a floodplain, just as if you were on some other non-desert tile.

So if I want a city not in or near desert, I'm going to have to think big and found at least one more further north, with an absolute ton of Springing going on north of the floodplains. Maybe aim to completely wipe out that desert eventually.

Probably worth doing in the long term in any event, but it won't be ready in time to help the current situation at all. It's a good thing you talked me into founding MafiaBoy on a plains hill instead of a floodplains.

[NobleHelium]

Founding on flood plains removes it and turns it into a regular desert tile. Flood plains shares the same terrain slot as forest/jungle, and like them would be removed by a city plant. You can then of course Spring the tile into plains.

[Mardoc]

Founding on flood plains removes it and turns it into a regular desert tile. Flood plains shares the same terrain slot as forest/jungle, and like them would be removed by a city plant. You can then of course Spring the tile into plains.

Well, yes, but I'm honestly more concerned about leaving the surroundings desert and giving Thoth a chance for a desert walking mobility unit to 3 move from out of my borders to into my city in one turn. Plus, well, that area isn't worth owning unless I have a Spring adept; a couple floodplains and some scrubs makes a pretty worthless city.

It's all moot until I manage to slip in KoTE, a mage guild, and an adept, though.

A tidbit from Mr Yellow

In the event you decide to attack, may i suggest making Thoth's current west coastal(?) city your first target? It holds his copper source, so a quick sea strike could sewer his connection to it.

In the event I do go to war against Thoth, he's right, this is where I would want to hit him. Preferably with Bronze Drowns and Cultists. Ideally, even, brought in by boat, but walking up the coast would be good enough, I suppose.

[Mardoc]

Thoth sadly has seen my copper mine that couldn't be roaded in time and have thus found the reason how i gained copper otherwise. Our trade connection has been sewered and i'm stuck with str. 3 warriors from here on.
Also Thoth has also completed Form of the Titan and can now build level 3 units out of the gate.

Situation near the capital now is that i have 7 warriors (4 of them bronze) nearby against some 4-5 swordsmen, 2 of them decently promoted and one guy with the axe and combat V, essentially str. 12. I'm able to produce a warrior each turn, but Thoth recently started building up his power again and will be aiming for the finishing blow.
I'm expecting military support from the elves pretty soon however.

- Sir Yellow

I wonder if I'm at war with Thoth, or he just pillaged a vital road? Either way, I'm really glad the elves are going to pitch in, that ought to keep Thoth distracted from revenging himself on poor innocent arms merchants.

Besides, Gilden and elven archers in general ought to be nearly impossible to shift. It's time, I think, to keep my head down and my settlers pumping, just with lots of glances over my shoulder.

That is, assuming Nyktorion really means it, rather than having a similar policy to mine of 'let's you and him fight'. Hopefully he's as opposed to a snowball Malakim as I am, or even more so.

I'm thinking my next tech path ought to be to go unlock Priests, then Knowledge of the Ether. Either that, or Horseback Riding -> Archery -> Stirrups for some Horse Archers. Maybe Feudalism for the Royal Guard? Or, heck, Mind Stapling for Saverous, since I'll apparently need a unit capable of cracking a Str 6 sword with combat V and a fair bit of combat ahead of him.

Actually, when I put it that way...Saverous ho! The other nice thing there is that he's announced to the whole world, so Thoth will know he's got to be cautious. But as long as Thoth is relying on melee units, Saverous is an excellent deterrent/safety net. Str 8, +25% against melee is nearly enough to handle that sword; add in a combat and shock promotion and I should be there.

And since I'll be going for Mind Stapling anyway, that means the logical path is down the religious tree to unlock Priesthood, Fanaticism, etc.

I still really want Sacrifice the Weak and Ritualists, but I need a deterrent quality force ASAP, so they'll have to wait.

[Mardoc]

Turns out Thoth only cut my trade, at least for the moment. Although there is now a swordsman in sight, 3.5/5 health. No contact from him; I'm debating if I should acknowledge the move, or play it cool. For that matter, I'm wondering if he's upset enough to do anything or not.

If I just show up on his doorstep with a new city, escorted by 4-5 bronze warriors, maybe that'll be ok. Still going to build the eastern city first, though.



After debating with myself a while, I decide to continue on a complete economy path for the moment. Both new cities are on Markets, Captain Crunch and Phiber Optik are building Settlers, and Phoenix is going to pump out a few workboats for the next city, and to explore eastward. I think I need to meet the rest of everyone so I can have some idea what's going on in the rest of the world. Getting foreign trade back would be a nice plus.

I considered having Phoenix build a settler as well, but first, frankly, a new city without coves is kinda worthless. Or at least, if it has a cove it's guaranteed to be worthwhile. Second, I ought to be getting a new religion this turn, with an immediate need for missionaries - best to keep one of my main production cities free for that, at least until I can get OO into MafiaBoy and Mindphasr and they have the production to take over. Plus, well, I can't Drown warriors without a temple, so I need a production site for that, too. I ought to be able to guarantee OO in Phoenix with the free missionary, if nothing else. If I'm lucky, it become the holy city and the missionary can head straight to Mindphasr, to be shortly followed by friends from Phoenix.

Phoenix is up to 17 hammers/turn, with Phiber Optik at only 15 (but of course still two pirate ports to upgrade). So in the event that Thoth does come my way, I ought to at least manage 2 warriors/turn, at the small cost of crushing my economy. Surprisingly, I'm up to #2 in production, second to Thoth (I'm assuming he's in Conquest, building military, but could be wrong about this). I thought Lanun were supposed to be hammer poor! Captain Crunch is only at 8, although I have hopes of boosting it to 10 when a mine finishes, and maybe even a little higher once I get archery and can build lumbermills. Still, there's no point in having it build anything but workers and settlers unless the situation becomes incredibly dire.

Assuming nothing interrupts my plans, in about 10 turns I should finish my last reach settler and be ready to start gearing up for potential war. Captain Crunch will focus on filling up the backlines, with whatever help I feel I can spare from the rest of the empire.

And, so far, I think 5 workers for 5 cities is enough. It helps that just about every city is working 2-3 ocean tiles with workboats instead of needing improved tiles, of course. Once I finish pushing outward, I think my backline cities will be founded from closest outward - I need the sugar and the pearls from city2 sooner than I need the straight up commerce/cove sites on the peninsulas. And I might as well minimize my maintenance costs once I have my land claimed.

[DaveV]

Actually, when I put it that way...Saverous ho! The other nice thing there is that he's announced to the whole world, so Thoth will know he's got to be cautious. But as long as Thoth is relying on melee units, Saverous is an excellent deterrent/safety net. Str 8, +25% against melee is nearly enough to handle that sword; add in a combat and shock promotion and I should be there.

And since I'll be going for Mind Stapling anyway, that means the logical path is down the religious tree to unlock Priesthood, Fanaticism, etc.

Another reason to build Saverous is so that he can start accumulating passive XP. With a higher base strength than other units, promtions will have a proportionately bigger effect.

OO priests aren't as universally useful as Ritualists, but when they can attack they are dominant. Their spell is only slightly weaker than Snowfall, and it comes on a tier 2 unit that you can spam to your heart's content.

OO is a great early game religion because of the culture - you can avoid all the monument builds you've been forced to crank out in your new cities.