RBP4 [SPOILERS] - Shaka of Zulu (sunrise089, regoarrarr, and friends)

[regoarrarr]

In any case here was luddite's response

Haha, thanks. I was happy to finally be meeting people too. I was isolated for so long...

We actually met down in Nakor's territory. I know plako was trying to help coordinate a meeting between us up in the jungle, but my warrior saw yours down by Nakor's city.

I think you guys are really isolated though, since you're blocked off to the west by ocean. I can at least move to the west by one land route, although that's through Mackoti's land, so it depends on whether he'll keep giving me open borders... I was cut off for a long time because he wouldn't let me through.

It's funny you bring up the GLH. I was SO tempted to make a run at it. But after a lot of planning, I decided that with both you and Mackoti possibly gunning for it, my odds were just too low. So I went for the oracle instead. I think I actually wasted too much effort getting it super fast, since apparently no one else even tried for it. So I have my doubts about whether that (and hinduism) were really worth it, since now I'm pretty far behind Plako and Parkin. I guess I'm basically in the same place as you- trying to play catchup after going for a wonder (and wasting some time skirmishing with Mackoti lol).

As far as friendly relations go- I think it'll be a while before we can trade, but I hope that within the next 50 turns we can get a trade route going, possibly by sailing across the coast from Parkin's territory. For right now, the thing that I'm looking for most is just information. Anything you can tell me about anyone else would be greatly appreciated. And I'll try to do the same.

I've been kind of irritated by the map. There's just so many choke points and dead ends, which has made scouting really annoying. And there is a land connection between plako and Nakor- in fact, they have cities quite near each other. And I know Nakor has a large military, so there's a chance they might go to war. Parkin seems to be claiming the most land so far (partly my fault for not expanding towards him), and is moving south towards plako. So, there's also a chance that they might go to war, or at least have tension in the jungle there.

Anyway I appreciate the long email, and hopefully we'll get the chance to chat some time.

So I guess he must have moved his warrior out of our sight after meeting us. How rude!!!

[regoarrarr]

Chat with luddite

luddite: hi
regoarrarr: hey luddite
(sounds liek such an insult)
luddite: haha yeah
although, given the state of my economy right now in civ, that's probably appropriate
regoarrarr: yes yes
my heart bleeds for your 2nd place self ;-)
luddite: oh
lol
well it's just from the oracle you know
regoarrarr: somehow i got a wonder too
and i'm 60 points behind you
but whatever
luddite: you must have really gone all out for that lighthouse, huh?
regoarrarr: yeah
once we moved our cap
luddite: i know you moved your initial settler to the coadst
regoarrarr: we pretty much had to have it
yeah
luddite: i really wanted to go for it
but i figured there was no chance of my beating both you and mackoti for it
regoarrarr: yeah
i don't know though
you might have been able to
especially with your 2nd city getting up to 5 pop so quick
luddite: yeah maybe
it would have been close i guess
regoarrarr: we kind of realized that having a coastal capital isn't that much of a bonus
since we found we were tech limited really
luddite: that's what i though too
regoarrarr: i'm not sure it was the right decision for us
but it is what it is
luddite: when i was doing sim tests, it seemed like the crucial barrier was getting bronze working
regoarrarr: so we're making the best of it
yeah
we ended up going bw first
but tehn stopped it halfway
to do fishing sailing masonry
then finished bw
luddite: ah
regoarrarr: we were lucky to have 2 non forested hills
and of course the 2 deer
so we were getting like 15hpt
luddite: oh nice
i think that's what i'm getting now lol
regoarrarr: so you think LP has staked out the most land?
it does seem like he's got a nice chunk
luddite: yeah
regoarrarr: i assume that the area north of plako where we were going to meet
is all LPs?
luddite: yeah it is
well
regoarrarr: it seemed like that's where we were heading
luddite: i might get a little
regoarrarr: i was surprised how much there was over there
you're to teh W of LP, right?
luddite: the thing is, since he had coast to his east, he just expanded southwest towards me
regoarrarr: right
makes sense
luddite: i'm trying to expand in two directions
there was a critical choke point between me and mackoti that I was hoping to get, but now Mackoti will get it
regoarrarr: ah
was that the cause of the war / not war?
luddite: haha, yep
regoarrarr: yeah he told me you had an unprotected settler / worker
?
luddite: yeah
did he tell you that we had an NAP?
regoarrarr: no
he neglected to mention that part ;-)
luddite: lol
well, he broke the NAP with a double move
i was a little upset...
regoarrarr: yeah i bet
in his defense it's a 2nd language and probably hard to figure out all the nuances of the rules
luddite: yeah
i don't think he deliberately cheated, i think he just misunderstood
regoarrarr: right
still annoying
luddite: indeed
do you think you'll have enough land to make a comeback?
regoarrarr: i hope so
so one interesting though
thought
in the vein of information about other folks
is when i was talking to mackoti
he pegged plako and Lord Parkin as the "runaways"
luddite: yeah
i'd agree with that assessment
they're top in food and mfg
regoarrarr: i was just surprised that you weren't up there
from someoen who hasn't met you
you seem right up there with the 2 of them
luddite: hmm not really
they're both well ahead of me in food and cities
regoarrarr: you've got 6?
luddite: yeah
regoarrarr: LP only hs 6 i thought
luddite: but they've both got 8 i think
regoarrarr: oh wow
luddite: maybe 7
regoarrarr: moogle just settled 6 and 7
luddite: plako got 8 a while ago
regoarrarr: right
luddite: also, LP has double gold and gems, so his research is flying
regoarrarr: sheesh
luddite: i uh... i have some complaints about the balance for this map
regoarrarr: lol
Sent at 12:08 on Friday
luddite: when was the last time you talked to mackoti?
regoarrarr: 3-4 days ago?
he's not the most communicative chap as i'm sure you know
luddite: yeah i know
i'm just trying to figure out whether he's still thinking of attacking me
regoarrarr: how's your / his power?
luddite: we're both pretty low as far as i can see... about the same
i might have to build some defenses though
Sent at 12:13 on Friday
regoarrarr: yeah
Sent at 12:17 on Friday
regoarrarr: care to share what you're teching?
luddite: mathematics, right now
regoarrarr: us too
luddite: now sure what i'll get after that
regoarrarr: do you have IW?
luddite: no
you?
regoarrarr: no
that was one of my thoughts for next tech
due to jungle
luddite: ah
regoarrarr: maybe currency
though that's pretty expensive
luddite: currency would be nice
regoarrarr: it's not AS useful for us (3-4 tr vs. 1->2)
but still useful
luddite: right
you could go for code of laws
for the ikhanda- courhouse combination
regoarrarr: i'd need phood for that
luddite: ?
regoarrarr: i would need priesthood to do col
we don't have that
luddite: oh lol
i thought phood was like the cool way of writing food
regoarrarr: lol
if i could guarantee the religion
i'd be more tempted
but i think someoen else will get it first
luddite: yeah
i'm thinking of going for the great library
regoarrarr: cool
luddite: but with 3 other industrious civs, it's a risk
regoarrarr: i don't think we'll be going for any other wonders any time soon
HG would be nice but i don't see us able to get it
i bet a few folks already have math
luddite: i heard sleeping moogle was already working on HG
regoarrarr: wouldn't be surprised
luddite: he hasn't built any wonders yet, despite being industrious
actually i was really curious what he was doing
i was surprised he didn't have more cities or a wonder by now
Sent at 12:34 on Friday
regoarrarr: might be primed to get it soon
he just settled 2 cities in one turn
wouldn't be surprised if he gets it at the end of this turn
luddite: hmm maybe
regoarrarr: he definitely had writing early

Some interesting tidbits on his war with mackoti, and he downplays his own score (of course) - again pointing the finger at Lord Parkin and plako. Also towards the end we speculate Moogle may complete the HG soon (perhaps even this turn)

[regoarrarr]

Without going in-game, SleepingMoogle just got a 31 point score increase, so Hanging Gardens definitely looking likely

[regoarrarr]

Got a response back from Nakor

Been very busy lately...
No problem with OB, as you must have noticed. Once you get those great trade routes in play, we can talk again...
Plako is playing a good game indeed! Wonder who will stop him...

No wonders for us either, to much competition... maybe later.
Still pretty early in the game and a huge map, so it will take some time for conflicts to apear, I think.

Kind regards,
Nakor

Not much there

[regoarrarr]

So annoyingly, we have the trading icon with Plako and WK, and can trade resources, but it must be unidirectional, as we don't have trade routes with them, but they (apparently) do have them with us.

It's because they've defogged a coastal path to us, but we have not fully defogged one to them.

Email to WK

Hey WK,

So apparently we have a trade route! We're able to trade resources, though it must be unidirectional, as it looks like you have trade routes to me, but we do not have trade routes with you. Hopefully you can enjoy the slight boost to research! Please remember this if and when people try to get you to close borders with us due to GLH trade routes ;-)

Anything else going on? Grant may be delayed in his visit to you by a few turns as he's going to detour slightly to the east to defog a coastal route to hopefully allow us to get routes with you as well. The map you provided will be quite helpful in that, so thank you again!

[regoarrarr]

Email to plako

Hi plako,

So apparently we have a trade route! We're able to trade resources, though it must be unidirectional, as it looks like you have trade routes to me, but we do not have trade routes with you. Hopefully you can enjoy the slight boost to research! Please remember this if and when people try to get you to close borders with us due to GLH trade routes ;-)

We also noticed you have a warrior that appears to be heading north past Bob's Fork. I know that we had talked about OBs with no scouting clause, and there is no way out of our lands if you continue north. Are you interested in modifying that arrangement? Though it's unfortunate for us that we no longer have any units nearby your lands, so it's a bit one sided (like the trade routes!!) :-)

Finally, we noticed that you were spending EPs on us (which is fine). I know we've agreed with several civs to stop at 43 EPs each (enough to both see graphs), but couldn't remember if we also had that deal with you. If not, would you be up for that?

[regoarrarr]

Email to Moogle

Okay,

I took a shot in game this evening



I have marked what I have decided to call the "Five Fingers" - the 5 narrow passes between our lands, and those of Adlain and mackoti (and further east locke, nakor, etc). From south to north

* Spice and Rice Finger
* Southern Ivory Finger
* Northern Ivory Finger
* Copper Finger
* Bacon Finger

I've also marked the clam city we were discussing earlier today (the actual clam tile is just offscreen to the west). In my mind (and I haven't confirmed this with sunrise but it seems reasonable), the southern 2 are definitely in Zulu sphere of influence, and the northern 2 are definitely Somnian (Somnusian? Sleeper? :-) ). It's the middle one that is up for discussion.

Would you agree with that? It's hard to decide exactly where the borders might lie, without taking some time to think of where the cities might go but that seems like a decent framework to me, if you agree.

And obviously you can see the borders of Adlain and Mackoti, at least as far as I know them. The Adlain's borders 2S sign though was placed based on his description probably 20 turns ago, so he may have moved northwards since then. Of course, he does only have 4 cities (I like to point that out as he's the only one with fewer than us!) :-D

Depending on what you're able to negotiate with mackoti, the tile 1N of the gem tile my warrior is standing on looks like a pretty solid chokepoint against him, which would allow a pretty defensible border city with Adlain maybe on the hill tile 1NW of the furs? Then maybe fish / copper? Dunno that's probably planning too far ahead, but hopefully this will give you some more map knowledge for us to be able to work something out, and maybe this will give you a leg up on negotiations with adlain / mackoti

Talk to you soon!

I'm feeling optimistic that we'll be able to get a good landgrab in the east

[regoarrarr]

So I've been pondering what to do with our Great Merchant, who arrives on the scene in 24 turns. I had had in the back of my mind, the idea to use him to bulb Civil Service.

I knew that we needed to clear Currency, which is the #1 target for a GM, but after looking at the official list, CS ain't gonna happen.

The relevant techs on the list are
* Currency
* Metal Casting
* Code of Laws
* Alphabet
* Monarchy
* Civil Service

So it crosses my mind that we may be able to snag Confucianism, depending on who is going for it. It's certainly possible (And probably likely) that someone will get it in the next 20 turns, but if we could knock out Math (2t), IW (6), Currency (15?) and MC (another 15).

Blech. That's not gonna cut it unless we drastically speed up our research rate.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

* Alphabet

Research visibility is key!

[Krill]

Worked well in PBEM4...