Like a hot wind Varn Gosam of the Malakim [SPOILERS]

[Selrahc]

That works for me.

Plans, schemes or ideas for use? Instrumental part of the Bannor War, or saved for more ambitious purposes later?

Or make a super priest - actually - that is better. Call him something ironic... like "Malcolm the Mild Mannered!"

Pretty sure that Adventurers can't be upgraded into the priest line.

[Square Leg]

Pretty sure that Adventurers can't be upgraded into the priest line.

poor Malcolm.

[Thoth]

Hill Giants are classed as Beast units and not Recon (who cannot pillage). I am unsure if they can pillage or not to be honest but my guess would be the same as yours in that they can't.

I would favour not engaging the Hill Giants too. Hunters are your best bet for clearing them out, or just leave them be outside your borders. Eventually they will get trapped by culture and so become easy-pickings!

Animals can't pillage and I don't think I've ever seen a giant pillage an ancient tower so I think I'll let the giant alone. He's going to be one tough cookie once he promotes again.

As for the Pyre... all the way home! I forget which tech it is (Mil Strat?) that allows city raider promo's, but a sword with a few of these and combat + melee is going to tear through Mr Yellow's cities... Or make a super priest - actually - that is better. Call him something ironic... like "Malcolm the Mild Mannered!" (or some Trek name! )

City Raider/City Defense promotions are unlocked at Warfare, I've already got access. Mil Strat enables the Heroic Epic, Command Posts (Organized leaders only), the Blitz promotion and the first player to the tech gets a Great Commander.

Plans, schemes or ideas for use? Instrumental part of the Bannor War, or saved for more ambitious purposes later?



Pretty sure that Adventurers can't be upgraded into the priest line.

I'll have to double check but IIRC Adventurers can upgrade into Scouts, Warriors or Adepts.

So, what to do with him?

Upgrade to scout for a super recon unit? I'll have super recon units once I get to Animal Handling so this looks like a waste

Upgrade to an Adept? Slightly more attractive, but again I'll have very good mages anyway once I get to Sorcery.

Upgrade to a Warrior? From here I can upgrade up the Archery, Melee and Mounted lines. In order to upgrade down the mounted line I'll need either Stirrups (for Camel Archers) or Trade + Construction + Horses (for Chariots).

Almost certainly Warrior --> Camel archer.

He won't play a part in the Bannor war as he won't have time to get leveled up. I'll likely promote him to a warrior and farm some exp in the desert to speed up his leveling process. The other option is to simply park him in GLT and save him for a later surprise.

I'm probably going to rename him "Warrior" for the moment.

[Thoth]

TLDR version: Attacked barb city. No losses. Decided to wait 1 turn before capturing it.

Moved settling party into position to settle next turn. Mr. Yellow now has walls around his capital and is likely working on a Siege Workshop.


Why wait on the barb city? Well, I have a 9/10 CR2 warrior who can attack at 90ish% odds next turn plus waiting a turn lets me build a road to the city before I capture it and move a Thane into the city to instantly pop the borders and bring it out of resistance. (IBT it built a second warrior....more easy exp for me)

I've started moving more troops towards the Eastern Front to further choke off Mr. Yellow's production. I'd prefer he didn't get any cats built before I can unleash Operation Fishface.

In the meantime, General Martok is showing 99% odds vs the top defender in Astrum, so he's going for a bit of a walk. I should be able to capture Astrum t100/101.

In foreign news, Mardoc settled his 6th city this turn (somewhere out of sight).

(diplo update to follow.....plus maybe some screenies later )

[Thoth]

I had a very interesting chat with Nyktorion this afternoon before playing the turn:

(TLDR version: Mr. Yellow is scrounging for any copper he can get his hands on and just finished teching Construction)

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Nyktorion:[/COLOR]: Hi there
Thoth: Hi!
Nyktorion: You have time for a short chat?
Thoth: Sure
Nyktorion: Concerning the Bannor war?
4:42 PM Thoth: What's on your mind?
Nyktorion: There's two things I want to tell you, that I found out thanks to still having this good relation ship with Mr. Yellow
4:43 PM first, he got his first classical era tech this turn, and when he told me what he is planning for the war
He mentioned it would be Construction
So you shoud be prepared for catapults as soon as the prereq building goes up
4:44 PM Thoth: Thanks. I had figured he would probably be heading there ASAP. 80 for a Siege workshop + 60 h per cat will take a few turns yet.
Nyktorion: Luckily, he hasn't got slavery yet
4:46 PM Thoth: If he builds the SW in his cap, I don't think he can get his first cat built before t 103-105. It's hard to build stuff when all of your tiles are pillaged.
4:47 PM Nyktorion: right with only a few mines...
Second thing I got to know diplomatically is... he still hasn't given up his search for copper yet
Thoth: I'll have a little surprise or two for him ready in the next 10 turns or so.
Nyktorion: He is currently trying to get WarriorKnight or Irgy to send him ome
4:48 PM Thoth: No surprise on the quest for copper, it makes a huge difference to his ability to fight.
Nyktorion: of course, that's a long trade route, and it's going through my lands
still, I can't interrupt it at will without declaring war on one neighbour (breaking a NAP) or destroying my own road
Thoth: Once I unwrap my surprise package, copper will cease to matter.
4:49 PM Nyktorion: but I'll try my best not getting my connection to WarriorKnight up for a few turns
Thoth: In the meantime, I'll be taking Valus ~t100
Thanks for the info and your efforts. It's appreciated.
Nyktorion: "for a few turns" means till T106
4:50 PM Thoth: hehehehehe.
Nyktorion: If necessary, I also have a piece of road in mind in my territory that I'd cut
4:51 PM Thoth: If there is a road from WK to Mr. Yellow through your lands you'll need to pillage Mr. Yellow's road connection to you. AFAIK roads in your own territory can't be pillaged.
Nyktorion: I just hope I don't make any miscalculations with trade routes given by coasts/rivers
ahhh
hmm, I thought I tried out seeing with mouseover
4:52 PM wait, I'll just have another look
Thoth: I assume you have Sailing already?
Nyktorion: I don't have
neither do I have Fishing
Thoth: That helps. A lot.
Nyktorion: but according to my C&D, Mr. Yellow has Fishing
4:53 PM he seems to have all ancient era techs except Hunting
4:54 PM Thoth: I thought he might have fishing. Not sure why though. There aren't any seafood resources in his territory (at least not that I can see). Might have been a hut pop though.
Nyktorion: Just looked, you were right about own roads not being pillageable; I can only do that to my aother improvements, so I looked incorrectly
good to know
4:55 PM Well, Tentatio-onis was right next to a lake
hmm
4:56 PM I wonder whether he has a sea-based trade route between Torrolerial and Trinity
I guess he has
Thoth: I've never been quite sure why Firaxis put in the "no domestic road pillaging" rule.
Nyktorion: Is the road between the two cities still intact?
Thoth: I think he does have the trade route, I cut the road connection on t 94
4:57 PM Nyktorion: Anyway, the last pieces of the road to WarriorKnight are not built yet
okay, I can trade resources with him, so that connection must exist
So I'll take care not to finish the last road pieces to WarriorKnight
4:58 PM Which would complete the conection Bannor <-> Ljos <-> Elohim <-> Sheaim
Thoth: Probably be good to delay those roads for a few turns yet. Trade routes can pass through your borders unless you are at war with both Mr. Yellow and WarriorKnight. Mardoc's route to Mr. Yellow used my road network.
4:59 PM Nyktorion: We only need to be prepared for Mr. Yellow getting too early warning about the two-way attack, depending on how good his relations with WarriorKnight are
Ah, good to know that there needs to be war with both sides
Thoth: Both the Sheam and the Elohim would probably jump at the chance to ship him some copper just to slow us down
5:00 PM Nyktorion: Well, I'll try my hand diplomatically with the Elohim
There's hope there
5:01 PM Mr. Yellow wrote me WarriorKnight was reluctant to ship him copper
Thoth: I don't know what his relations with WK are like. WK asked me about the reasons for war when we first met, but didn't seem to care much that we were fighting. He's probably glad to have what appears to be a stalemate between Mr. Yellow and I.
Nyktorion: not reluctant to establish the connection, though
5:02 PM Maybe it'll make him happy to know that some Banor cities are going to me rather than to you?
Thoth: Good to know that their relations are on the cool side. Trade connection helps from OB trade + resources.
Possibly. OTOH he may become worried about two strong neighbours who appear to be working together.
5:03 PM Nyktorion: At least, I think that my own relations have been good with WK up to now
Thoth: I'd be nervous if I were in his spot. Sheam on one side and the Elfs and Malakim on the other.
5:04 PM Nyktorion: not sure whether my good relations will change when the situation gets more serious, though
Thoth: He and I swapped a couple of emails back and forth, but trade routes are a long way away and our borders aren't close yet so we didn't have a lot to say.
5:05 PM (I need to step outside for a quick cigarette....back in 5 mins)

Nyktorion: ok
5:06 PM WK and I have been talking a bit more...
5 minutes
5:12 PM Thoth:
5:15 PM If Mr.Yellow is willing to run food deficit and shrink his cap he can push out a cat by t103. I'll see what I can do to give him other things to think about. Like trying to peel a few more warriors off his forested hills. I can have another 3/4 in place in a few turns.
5:16 PM Nyktorion: I wonder
5:17 PM what chance to win does general Martok have against one of those warriors?
I guess it's a lot better than against the defenders of Torrolerial?
Thoth: Attacking into Torrolerial he's showing 80% odds. Against the top defender in Valus 99%.
5:18 PM I think he's going to take a little walk.
In the open, warriors are free exp for him.
Nyktorion: of course, with our NAP in place, Vallus is very lightly defended
5:19 PM he actually asked me to send some units to help defend Vallus/Trinity against your troops moving east
it has only one warrior for defence currently
or did you rather mean Trinity?
Thoth: erf. Not Vallus. I meant Astrum.
Nyktorion: ah
Thoth: doh.
Nyktorion: his copper city
5:20 PM Thoth: Yep. That's the one.
Nyktorion: but I think Gilden will have very good odds against Vallus, too
well, of course I told Mr. Yellow I can't send units to help yet
Thoth: I suspect you're in for a couple of easy conquests.
5:21 PM "not yet" = "not until t106"
Nyktorion: but that I'm building up an army to make a decisive strike in this war soon
Thoth: heheh
Nyktorion: I did not specify against whom
Thoth:
Nyktorion: but I think some more warriors will appear before our NAP runs out
5:22 PM still, Priesthood is due at T101
so that gives me some time to maybe whip a priest, upgrade a couple of disciples, and send them to the front
5:23 PM Thoth: Nice. A few disposable Tigers to help soften up the defenders will save some casualties.
5:24 PM Stonewardens are decent enough but Shield of Faith won't give me enough of a boost to even the odds vs Torrolerial.
5:25 PM Once the war is done, would you be interested in a religion swap? I could send a Stonewarden or two your way to build some Temple's of Kilmorph for you in exchange for a Temple of Leaves or two.
5:26 PM Nyktorion: Certainly.
Though that's stuff for after the war thn, when our production is less tied up
Speaking of religion swaps
5:27 PM I suggested one (for the future) to WarriorKnight, as well, and he also seems interested
Thoth: Great. Yes, definately after the war. All my hammers are currently allocated for military/eco/expansion.
5:28 PM Nyktorion: Wow
Thoth: Religion swap with WK would do me wonders. I like the Order priests, and the temples are handy in military cities.
Nyktorion: you still have space to expand into?
that's nice
5:29 PM Well, I'll have some space, too, again, once Vallus and Trinity fall
Thoth: I've got room for one more city that I'll be settling t 97 and I'll be capturing a junky barb city on the edge of the desert either this turn or next. After that I'm out of room unless I want to settle a pure desert site.
5:30 PM Nyktorion: Ahh
that's probably the city
Thoth: You should be able to squeeze in another couple of cities with his wide spacing.
Nyktorion: that my hawk already spotted
South of Golden Yurt, right?
5:31 PM Thoth: That's the one. It gets 3 fp, 2 oasis, a source of fire mana and a whole pile of useless desert. If it wasn't for the FP I'd either raze it or farm it for exp.
5:32 PM As it is, it will pay for it's self but never build anything except with either slavery or conquest.
16 minutes
5:48 PM Nyktorion: Okay, I'm done for today, going to bed now
Hoping for the best your sieging of Torrolerial
5:49 PM Thoth: Thanks. Good chatting with you again.
And thanks for the intel. I owe you one.
Nyktorion: Bye bye
Thoth: Good night.

We're a right pair of bastards aren't we?

Going forward, I think Nyktorion and I can work together at least so long as he's willing to. Once the Bannor are close to being eliminated I'll sound him out about a possible mutual defense pact and/or some sort of plan to split the world between us. I'd rather work with the Elfs than have to deal with their World Spell and so far Nyktorion appears to be someone I can work with.

And I owe him a favour for the intel.

[Thoth]

I started up the turn by capturing the infamous barb city:

Two workers connected it to my trade network, then a Thane popped it out of resistance.

Not much of a city but it will produce a decent amount of commerce.


In the westlands I founded Golden Wigwam, bringing my city count up to 8:

This will be a great city. Enough food to grow fairly quickly, solid production and a nice pile of commerce.

Out East my scout continues his exploration:

He could be moving slightly faster if I promote him to mobility but that would be a dead giveaway to WarriorKnight that I have HBR. He may have already guessed but I don't see much point in confirming his guess yet. So far he's expanded quite slowly but he's got some very good land to his south and that enormous floodplain valley to his west.

I wonder what resources are hiding to the south of Inishbofin? Something caused him to found on the plains sheep tile (no hill).

End of turn demographics:

I like the look of that.

The military number is a bit deceptive. I've got 5 warriors around Golden Hut with over 10xp each plus a substantial number of 6-9 xp warriors and swords (not including the ones already committed to the Police Action in West Bannorland) so my actual combat ability is somewhat stronger than the numbers suggest.

There are skellies and gobos showing up from the desert every few turns so I'll be able to keep on training up a solid core of experienced units for awhile yet. Sooner or later I'll want to clear out the barrows, ruins and gobo forts SE of Golden Hut but that can wait for a bit.

[Square Leg]

Golden Hut actually will make a pretty nice city once sprung. Farm all the FP's and cottage the plains.

Golden Wigwam looks like it is going to be a pretty important city already. A key border location with Marrrrdoc. A cheeky spread of OO would be nice there!

I see Priesthood is next up - is the plan to get OO soonest after that? Although the war with Mr Yellow isn't actually costing much at the moment, it would be better to get it over with sooner rather than later.

[Thoth]

Golden Hut actually will make a pretty nice city once sprung. Farm all the FP's and cottage the plains.

That's pretty much the plan. Spring is a ways away yet though.

Golden Wigwam looks like it is going to be a pretty important city already. A key border location with Marrrrdoc. A cheeky spread of OO would be nice there!

A spread of OO in the next 3/4 turns would be awesome, it would save me from actually having to research OO.

I see Priesthood is next up - is the plan to get OO soonest after that? Although the war with Mr Yellow isn't actually costing much at the moment, it would be better to get it over with sooner rather than later.

I'll have OO by turn 103 and I'll fire the World Spell ASAP once I've spread OO to one city. I need to run some WB tests to see what the odds are on missionary spreading into a city with a religion. IIRC the odds are better than in BTS but if the missionary fails then this whole plan falls apart.

Depending on where the missionary spawns I'll be firing the WS between t103-106. That will get me 9 Cultists. I'll need 3/4 to Tsunami my way into the Bannor capital, the rest will be used to create OO temples.

I'm figuring on upgrading 3/4 Lightbringers to Cultists to start a bit of ocean scouting.

I want the war over soonish so I can get back to building for a bit. That and I can actually start making use of his capital, which is going to be an absolute monster of a production city.

6 river grass
1 river corn
4 grass hills (3 riverside)
1 river ph gems
2 plains hills (1 riverside)
1 Grass hill sheep
4 coast tiles
1 forested plains (river corner)

Getting the corn and gems online will also do nice things to my health/happy caps.

[Square Leg]

If you spread OO to a city with no religion it is certain not to fail. The OO priest that found temples are probably best used in cities which already have a religion.

Sending 4 Cultists around the world the would be cool - by the time they make it to the other side they will have a fair few promo's too and may even be a threat!

[Thoth]

If you spread OO to a city with no religion it is certain not to fail. The OO priest that found temples are probably best used in cities which already have a religion.

Spreading to a no-religion city = 100%, but if the missionary spawns in Golden Shanty it will take 4-5 turns to get to a no-religion city. Ideally the missionary will spawn in one of my no-religion cities and I can fire the World Spell t103 which would let me take the Bannor out by t 105-106.

Sending 4 Cultists around the world the would be cool - by the time they make it to the other side they will have a fair few promo's too and may even be a threat!

"Around the world" may be a bit difficult on a flat map.

But I would like to see what is out there (there was some discussion in the setup thread about setting up a "quest island" or two) and if I'm wrong about the world wrap then stealing circumnavigation from Mardoc would be nice for denial purposes if nothing else.