[SPOILERS] Balseraphs: A Guide to Mis-Management (by Kyan and TT)

[DaveV]

However, what are the 'mini trees' ? I know there is a shrub terrain now, is this what it looks like?

New forests. If you burn down a forest, you get burnt forest. Those grow into new forests, which turn into regular forests over time. New forests can be treated as forests except they don't give a defense bonus.

You're a better civ player than I am, so I'm not going to give you any advice on how to play. I see my role as pointing out the differences from what you're used to and answering questions.

[Kyan]

New forests. If you burn down a forest, you get burnt forest. Those grow into new forests, which turn into regular forests over time. New forests can be treated as forests except they don't give a defense bonus.

You're a better civ player than I am, so I'm not going to give you any advice on how to play. I see my role as pointing out the differences from what you're used to and answering questions.

Hmm, this would imply to me that we start near each other. Otherwise, what's the point in them as they'll just turn into a regular forest. My guess is we start near and they're in place to make a choke slightly less effective.

As for civ, well, i haven't seen you play but thta's irrelevant anyway. I wasn't lying about my FfH experience. I really am clueless, but you can take as much as a role or as little a role as you wish. I appreciate your time regardless.

Question about magic. If i have a source hooked up before the adept is created- does the adept get level 1 of that mana school automatically? If i hook up a source after he's already created- do i otherwise use a promotion to gain that spell or does he automatically learn it?

Also, what are the benefits to having more than one source of the same type? I understand about death and it powering spectres but are there other ones that work like that?

I understand Mages can be made once you have sorcery tech and they require an adept with 10 xp to be promoted? Is this expensive? Can i train mages after learning Sorcery or still adepts?

[Mist]

Question about magic. If i have a source hooked up before the adept is created- does the adept get level 1 of that mana school automatically?

No. First source only unlocks promotions of a given school.

If i hook up a source after he's already created- do i otherwise use a promotion to gain that spell or does he automatically learn it?

You have to use a promotion. Promotions are not lost if you loose a source.

Also, what are the benefits to having more than one source of the same type?

Two sources give you automatic promotion at level 1. Three give automatic level 2. Four give automatic level 3.
Also some mana types have a cumulative effect per source ( eg Law gives maintenance discount )

I understand about death and it powering spectres but are there other ones that work like that?

Yes. But they are rare.

I understand Mages can be made once you have sorcery tech and they require an adept with 10 xp to be promoted?

It requires an adept of certain level ( 4? can't remember now ) so xp required varies on charisma

Is this expensive?

Depends how seriously your economy is tanked Usually it's manageable and worth it.

Can i train mages after learning Sorcery or still adepts?

Adepts. Mages and archmages are upgrade only unit.

[Bobchillingworth]

Are you planning on spending much time in the Godking civic? Although settling in place is likely the best option (would be nice to get some visibility on the two fogged BFC tiles in the south before you do anything with the settler), settling 1E will give you at least two more hills to work, possibly three (the fogged tile the warrior can uncover looks like it might be a plains hill). You give up the defense and early extra hammer if you move off the starting tile, but working 4 or 5 hills instead of just two will make a lot of difference if you want to emphasize production before (presumably) making the eventual switch to Aristocracy.



Also the New Forests are not a natural map feature and they don't grow on ivory, so it looks like you need to anticipate some non-standard map design from Ravus (to the extent that you can anticipate something irregular :P ) FFH has a lot of special terrain types and features, but it typically generates maps that follow the same basic rules as BTS ones.

[DaveV]

Hmm, this would imply to me that we start near each other. Otherwise, what's the point in them as they'll just turn into a regular forest. My guess is we start near and they're in place to make a choke slightly less effective.

The barbs can put a better choke on you in FfH than any human player. If there are some areas for them to spawn, they will come in quantities large enough to be very annoying. Barbs will usually move toward a city and try to attack it, but they'll detour to pick off units they think they can beat, or to snipe workers. Barb warriors can pillage, but lizardmen, skeletons, and goblins can't. Animals and giants can't enter your borders, but will be more than happy to pick off your explorers or settling parties.

Question about magic. If i have a source hooked up before the adept is created- does the adept get level 1 of that mana school automatically? If i hook up a source after he's already created- do i otherwise use a promotion to gain that spell or does he automatically learn it?

To expand on Mist's explanation: adepts can gain free levels in a spell sphere when they are born, or when they're upgraded to mage. An adept-class unit gains n-1 levels in each sphere, where n is the number of sources of that mana you have. The number of free levels is limited to 1 for adepts, 2 for mages, and 3 for archmages. So, with a ton of micromanagement (and a metamagic node), you can get all the cool level 1 spells, then reconfigure your nodes before you upgrade to mage and get a few good level 2 spells.

Also, what are the benefits to having more than one source of the same type? I understand about death and it powering spectres but are there other ones that work like that?

I think pretty much all of the level 3 summons have affinity, which is the promotion that gives extra strength for a specific type of mana. Several have affinity of 2, which gives +2 strength for each mana source. Several heroes have affinity (Chalid-Sun, Brigit-Fire, Yvain-Nature).

[Kyan]

Firstly, thank you very much for those explanations. Very useful info!



Ok, so let's take a look at what magic we want to actually use.

[Kyan]

and again with edits to show what we have access to and what i'd like ...

[Kyan]

Turn 0:



to move or not to move?

this start has bugger all early game production. But... not too bad later game. A move one south would secure another riverside grassland hill as well as unlocking the plains hill. Maybe that would be better?

[Kyan]

Discussion between myself and bob:

[SIZE="2"]>>WARNING: INCLUDES FfH PBEM 5 SPOILERS<<[/SIZE]

me: ok got the turn
and decision to make
Sent at 9:52 PM on Monday
me: screenie in thread
Sent at 9:54 PM on Monday
bobchillingworth: hmm
me: im unsure
bobchillingworth: moving south might not be a good idea
lose the fp and a grassland river and a turn
me: production seems to be quite key early game from what i've played
yeah and the bonus hammer...
bobchillingworth: production is important, but it's more so if you'll be running Godking
will you?
me: i think so
god king/agrarian then aristo swap later i guess?
bobchillingworth: that's what most people do
I did that in PBEM V
me: worked well
bobchillingworth: but you could just beeline aristocracy
and never bother with godking
Iskender did that, and he's doing well too
me: need Myst for KotE anyway
and the bonus hammers/gold would make up for the anarchy turn
bobchillingworth: yeah, and if you want an early academy
well, like I said in the thread you could move 1 E
5 hills + cow
actually, very similar start to what I have in pbem V
heh
except I actually got a commerce resource :P
in place isn't bad either
me: hmm one thing to settling in place
that is the most defensible city ive seen
3 rivers plus hill defence,,,
bobchillingworth: yeah those fake looking rivers imply that you're supposed to settle there
probably for that reason
so that no one dies from early barbs
me: i'd get my own moat
Sent at 10:00 PM on Monday
me: ok i want to settle in place
a) save a turn, b) defensible, c) gain a hammer, d) gain a moat
bobchillingworth: are you going to convert this turn?
me: should i?
i wasnt going to if i stay put
bobchillingworth: well it's only a 10% bonus
me: ill do it when i do god king
bobchillingworth: yeah
me: ok cool
bobchillingworth: you can probably go worker first
if you keep the warrior home
since you start with agri
or you could build a warrior first, and free up the starting warrior for scouting and maybe lair poppage
impossible to say which is the best option
me: worker first
more natural :P
bobchillingworth: you're surely safe to scout for a few turns with the warrior anyway
me: yeah i was just thinking that :P
bobchillingworth: I don't see any lairs that could spawn nasties and reach you soon
me: also, im thinking AH to start to hook up the cows, we could do with the production
and food is always good
bobchillingworth: reveals horses, too- important to know where those are
me: yep ok
ill do that then
at least thsoe elephants give us a 1f 3h tile
bobchillingworth: enjoy your ridiciously fake gnp :D
me: so, not so much :P
bobchillingworth: it'll actually be a pretty nice capital
average production, but with cottages / workshops on the plains and farms on the grassland, pretty sweet
me: yup
looks useful early and late game
bobchillingworth: good settler pump too
oh and nicely positioned for overlords priests
me: overlords looks more and more tempting, i wont lie.
they seem such a nice fit
bobchillingworth: too far away to hit with tsunami from enemy culists, but if you build any of your own you can cover three of the approaches

Summary: I'm settling in place because of the bonus hammer, non-wasted turn and, far more importantly, i'm a crazy clown king and i want a moat dammit! Bow to my whim!

[Kyan]

the after. Y'know, seeing that number of turns for your first tech makes me realise just how powerful techs from huts are gonna be in these games. Fingers crossed! I'm improving my chances by sending both the scout and warrior out whilst going worker first...

My thinking is that there are no obvious ruins etc around and that with our forested ivory, we have a 1f 3h tile all raring to go should we need a quick warrior. Combined with our plains hill start and we can already churn out warriors quickly should we need to.