[Spoilers] The Golem Factory: Beeri Bawl of the Luchuirp

[Selrahc]

Okay, I'm de-dedlurking.


Before I do:
Key point that went wrong was the Mist war. Which was partly my fault because I was convinced he would be bluffing.

It was a pretty crap offer though. If he had just asked 200 gold to not attack us, that would have been fine. Asking for us to pay him, to help him burn down cities we wanted to conquer, with him getting over 100 gold per city from the conquest bonus(50-75 in addition to normal capture cash), and with raider pillage cash... It was extortion for stuff he didn't really need which was why I was thinking it was a bluff. His only other option was an inconclusive war against us, which would hurt us more but that isn't the kind of gameplan that wins a 7 player game. Getting our backing to burn down 4 cities and make ~500 gold would have had a long term payback. He really needed to get a 2vs.1 going, and naked extortion isn't the way to do that.

In general, it seems like diplomacy didn't go terribly well all game. I'm not sure how much you posted up, but from my perspective it seemed like the closest thing we had to a friend was Mist(!).

The game was practically over once we lost Barnaxus. Uberfish's role in that little debacle was pretty mean.

I'd like to think the planned rush on Ilios would have worked. We'll never really know. I do think that if Mist hadn't rushed us, Ilios would have been in a lot more trouble.

I really wish we'd had a well promoted Barnaxus. I wish we'd gotten to good golems. I wish we'd done the silly Hammers trick I suggested. Lots of untapped potential. I hope the Luchuirp eventually do get a good game on Realms Beyond, because I'm very interested to see if their lack of mobility is made up for by raw power. Sadly, this wasn't the game that showcased them.


I think you did pretty good for someone entering this game as a newbie Sciz. I hope I was helpful as a dedlurker, and I'm sorry we didn't do better.


Golem Factory Shutdown

[Sciz]

Okay Tia'ran will be destroyed this turn and I will be out of this game.

It was a fun game, just too bad about the Mist invasion. I agree with you that I thought it was a bluff on Mist's part, I thought he knew that it would be pointless to try to attack me and that it would only hinder us both. I tried negotiating down the price on attacking Ilios, but he wouldn't have any of it, so in the end I tried to call his bluff, but it was the wrong choice. In retrospect it would obviously been better for us to have accepted Mist's deal and killed Ilios with him, but I just didn't think he'd attack us, he lost the game for himself when he did it too.

After the attack we were pretty much done for already. Destroyed our economy with military to protect us against Mist, and when we finally made peace with Mist I went extremely light on the military because I thought that was the only chance I had to catch up a bit. I knew any of Ilios or Uberfish could easily kill me, but I figured it was worth a shot.

I think the attack against Ilios would have succeeded if Mist hadn't intervened. He probably would've seen it coming after a few WGs built, but I don't think there was anything he could've done to defend against 10 WGs, several catapults and instant repairing adepts, at least not his border cities anyways. Too bad we never got the chance to try.

All in all, Luchuirp is my favourite civ but I just don't think they are cut out for MP. They start way too slow with really expensive MGs, and they take a long time to get great. They are also too slow military wise, trading off speed for power, and we've seen in every PBEM so far that speed is better than power. I'd love to try the Luchuirp again sometime though. Maybe with a later age start they'd be better.

You were a great ded lurker Selrahc, sorry for stopping with all the updates, I just didn't feel like it towards the end.

[Gaspar]

I tend to think Barnaxus is one of the biggest reasons its hard for Luchuirp to succeed in MP. Anytime you have that much of your power tied to one unit, its going to present an irresistible target for your opponents. Add that to their native slow nature and the fact that as a excellent teching civ they already have a bulls-eye on their back, its very hard to succeed in these sorts of games.

Like anything else, I think it can be done, but it will require some luck and incredibly skilled play. Hopefully we get to see it sometime.

[Sciz]

Yeah getting Barnaxus killed that early on was a major blow. That was another mistake. I had him standing around the barrow to the west killing skeletons, and just then Mist attacked me and I couldn't get Barnaxus back in time, his wolves caught up to him only two tiles away from Ithralia.

[Sciz]

Though obviously the worst part of the game for me was my diplomacy, since that is where I lost the game.

First avoiding contact with Mist for some reason. I have no idea why I did so, for some reason I thought he didn't know I was to his east and that he'd target his western enemy instead. Second of all the negotiating when Mist attacked me, though IMO that was as big a mistake on Mist's part as it was on mine, since we both lost the game there when he attacked me. And third of all not having any decent allies. Uberfish was obviously playing me along, which I figured out after Mist told me about the giant spider barnaxus capture, and I could never really trust Ilios even though we had several trades and he helped me with copper against Mist.

Gonna take a long break from PBEMs now, except PBEM6 of course which I have to continue, but I won't be joining any new ones for quite some time.

[Brian Shanahan]

Actually Sciz, when looking at the deal from both sides us lurkers at the time were of the general consensus that the offer by Mist while not stellar was pretty decent. OK yes it was losing you money, but on the other hand it would have meant your big rival to the East getting caught out, and stunted, allowed you to tech and grow in peace, and when Mist became an irrelevance to the game (due to the civ's weaknesses, not to Mist's ability) you'd have a war broken civ to the west to expand into.

[Sciz]

Maybe, but the important thing here is that I didn't believe Mist would actually attack me instead of settling for a lower price. I thought it was pretty obvious that he wouldn't be able to take more than one city from me, so I basically thought "i'll try to haggle the price down, since there's no way he'll actually attack me, and when the price is reasonably okay, i'll accept". Obviously in retrospect it would've been much better to accept right away than what happened, but yeah.

Also in retrospect I probably should've settled the northeast city with cows and wines before cotton valley. Cotton Valley was crap.

[Sciz]

Actually the one game i'd want to join is if there's an FFH2 Pitboss, in a team with 2-3 others so I don't have to do everything

[Krill]

Maybe, but the important thing here is that I didn't believe Mist would actually attack me instead of settling for a lower price. I thought it was pretty obvious that he wouldn't be able to take more than one city from me, so I basically thought "i'll try to haggle the price down, since there's no way he'll actually attack me, and when the price is reasonably okay, i'll accept". Obviously in retrospect it would've been much better to accept right away than what happened, but yeah.

Also in retrospect I probably should've settled the northeast city with cows and wines before cotton valley. Cotton Valley was crap.

Stupid question perhaps, but if he wans't in a position to attack you, he wouldn't have been in a position to attack Ilios, right? So you wouldn't have to pay for (m)any cities that wouldn't have been captured.

[Sciz]

Yeah I realized that after the fact actually. I was hitting myself a few turns after he declared on me, because I realized that he probably would only be able to take like one city from Ilios, so I wouldn't owe him much at all. I considered asking him for peace and to go on with the original plan then, but I had already told Ilios about Mist's plan then since I was trying to get copper from him.

Many bad decisions in this game, but it's much easier to realize that afterwards. It was my first online game though so yeah.