Uncommonly Good: A Story of Elves

[Gaspar]

Yet another exciting turn report in Elfland.

A bear in the north showed up next to Brooklyn Brawler at beginning of turn, but I was able to use double forest movement to scurry away. We can pop the dungeon next turn if so inclined. Only way I won't is if an animal will be in position to attack if we do so - would suck to get a great prophet or something and lose him to a bear the same turn. Would also suck to get an ogre or something, but that's neither here nor there.



Hippus gained 5 points (pop) and Elohim gained 14 (land). No other score increases this turn.

6T to mysticism. At EOT, warrior #3 finishes (only going to name units that will do something interesting, most warriors are super disposable) and cap hits the happy cap at size 6. Going to crank out another warrior and then get to work on another worker, followed by a settler, interrupted by an Elder Council. No whipping really slows down the FFH early game.

For what its worth, got this little nugget from Nicolae today as well. Coming soon - my thoughts on the latest dotmap discussion, a bit of a more specific plan for when to do what, and a reply to Nicolae, not necessarily in that order.

Danger is clear, C3 lizardman just suicided into warrior. How's it looking up there in #1 in score :P?

Cheers,
Nicolae

[Gaspar]

Ok, let's try to build some southern consensus with another episode of...



[Gotta up the poorly photoshopped content quotient in this thread, can't be accused of being boring]

So, here's southern dotmap 2.0 (your helpful and instructive interim dotmaps could be described at 1.1, 1.2, etc.):



Here's what I've decided:

1. The inland remnants site is a better choice. While the coastal version is a better city overall, we have to remember a few things. First, food is not the issue in FFH it is in bts. Fast pop growth doesn't have the same cache when you can't whip it into improvements. And every coastal city is a real soft spot for the player who goes OO. While the nature of our lands is that a number of coastal settlements will be a necessity, the Remnants site, as Azoth said, is also likely to be the holy city for FoL, and will likely be the most important city in the empire long run, with Song of Autumn and high production from the remnants + marble tile. It will grow slowly, but at size 4 it could work cows, remnants, marble and a farm and be a huge profit.

2. It lets us settle that offshoot clams/pigs city to shield it from the front lines. While Blue Dot is no great city, with lots of crappy coast and pretty much all jungle on the mainland, it covers a great strategic place, and once we can replace that jungle with forest, it'll be a pretty darned solid location.

3. The Orange vs Pink debate is going to rage on. I relocated Orange to Azoth's suggestion, as with the new Remnants site, its an unnecessary degree of overlap. The new Orange is a pretty decent location, firming up the borders and creating a likely jumping off point for a future Sheaim invasion. Downside? Its going to fight with a likely Sheaim Pyre city for the good tiles, and could lose with them in 2nd ring depending on where he plants. Pink, I think, is the best city site available in the area. Its a real border sealer, It gets the good tiles in first ring, well defensible with rivers and a hill plant. Its incredibly aggressive however, much closer to the Sheaim capital than ours, and is likely to tip Nicolae off that we don't view him as a long term partner (if my dungeon stunt didn't.) I haven't made up my mind yet. I think this will need to be city 3, however, even if the location is pretty weak until BW/KotE/AV. My gut says to go with Orange, but I really *want* to settle pink.

4. The black dots are my theoretical locations for sealing off the rest of Ljosalfar lands. The western dot we lack map knowledge, but it seems like its at or near a chokepoint. No food other than to borrow Clam from Blue dot, however. The eastern one is a likely cotton/pigs/gold site, but I'd like to see what's in the ??? area before committing.

Over the next day or so, I'd like to put together a more specific plan, involving builds and turns for getting the Remnants site settled as soon as possible. While I don't think rushing a settler is necessarily the right play in FFH, its killing me watching the capital grow onto a bunch of crappy tiles and I'd like to start empire building a bit. Your job, team, is to nag me until that plan is posted. You're pretty good at that.

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[/img]

[Man Behind the Mask]

Not much to say on the turn. I fully expect the warrior to be faced down by two animals once he steps on the dungeon, given past form.

On the dotmapping, I think you’ve done a great job of pulling the threads together towards a conclusion. I wouldn’t want to completely discount 1S of new orange, which is probably the best halfway house between the two choices. Our capital and the Sheaim are actually so close that there has to be overlap with either the capitals or the first ring cities if we both plant towards the same location. However, there is still a while to go before a decision is needed if you’ve settled on the Remnants site first.

I’m looking forward to the expansion plan. The biggest decision is going to be how many warriors and workers to send with the settler? It could be worth fogbusting the route with one of the next two warriors before Mysticism.

On the Kyan substitution issue, it’s worth noting that Krill has been very enthusiastic about playing a summoned civ (mainly Hyborem) in a FFH game. It’s plausible that he’s made a deal with Kyan on that front. I agree with the question of “what happened to TT?”, but I suspect the answer would be “exams” if you expressed curiosity in the tech thread.


One final note. The picture at the end of the post doesn’t show up for me.

[Mardoc]

I do disagree with Mardoc’s “workable” tile counts, so I’m not sure what we’re seeing differently? I make it six tiles for pink (number 7 above), and seven for 1NE (5).

Well, for pink dot I see, from the northwest, a grassland hill forest, grassland forest, grassland hill, grassland forest. And that's it that isn't jungle-covered; looks like 4 to me. 5 if you count the city center.

1NE would keep those 4, and add two grassland hills, for 6.

Unless you're counting max city size due to food surplus, something like that?

[Mardoc]

3. The Orange vs Pink debate is going to rage on. I relocated Orange to Azoth's suggestion, as with the new Remnants site, its an unnecessary degree of overlap. The new Orange is a pretty decent location, firming up the borders and creating a likely jumping off point for a future Sheaim invasion. Downside? Its going to fight with a likely Sheaim Pyre city for the good tiles, and could lose with them in 2nd ring depending on where he plants. Pink, I think, is the best city site available in the area. Its a real border sealer, It gets the good tiles in first ring, well defensible with rivers and a hill plant. Its incredibly aggressive however, much closer to the Sheaim capital than ours, and is likely to tip Nicolae off that we don't view him as a long term partner (if my dungeon stunt didn't.) I haven't made up my mind yet. I think this will need to be city 3, however, even if the location is pretty weak until BW/KotE/AV. My gut says to go with Orange, but I really *want* to settle pink.

I'm afraid you've captured the essence of the problem here. All in all, I think I'd go with Orange or a split-the-difference approach. I don't think Fire mana alone is worth having a guaranteed war with Nicolae instead of a likely war, or a war that he's preparing for too. In the timeframe we're talking about, we're extremely unlikely to make it to mages, so all it would really buy us is Blaze. Which, admittedly, could help convert jungle to forest if we're willing to take the risk of a spread (or figure out how to get our hands on some water mana), but it's not *that* good. Particularly compared to simply settling where there's less jungle to begin with.

4. The black dots are my theoretical locations for sealing off the rest of Ljosalfar lands. The western dot we lack map knowledge, but it seems like its at or near a chokepoint. No food other than to borrow Clam from Blue dot, however. The eastern one is a likely cotton/pigs/gold site, but I'd like to see what's in the ??? area before committing.

Agreed that we need more map knowledge. The western dot - it's possible that the peaks go all the way to the ocean. There's definitely water beyond the southernmost peak, but I can't tell if that's ocean or just river from fog-gazing. If it's ocean, I would put this spot at the absolute lowest priority we have - no, even lower. Even if it's not ocean, I don't expect a whole lot of competition for plains and plains hills with no resources.

The Eastern dot, on the other hand, seems high priority to me. First, it's a good site on its own (although I agree there's the chance of improving it further with more maps). Second, it controls access to that wonderful backlines forest of ours.

Over the next day or so, I'd like to put together a more specific plan, involving builds and turns for getting the Remnants site settled as soon as possible. While I don't think rushing a settler is necessarily the right play in FFH, its killing me watching the capital grow onto a bunch of crappy tiles and I'd like to start empire building a bit. Your job, team, is to nag me until that plan is posted. You're pretty good at that.

Well? It's been, like, two hours man! Two hours! You know how much weed you can smoke in two hours?

Honestly, I think I agree it's time. And a 2nd worker can probably wait until we have Education and hence something for him to do. Realistically, since we're elves, once we do get Education we probably want to go to a minimum of 2 workers/city and stay there, but with only farms possible there's not really a cost to sticking with 1 worker.

[Man Behind the Mask]

Well, for pink dot I see, from the northwest, a grassland hill forest, grassland forest, grassland hill, grassland forest. And that's it that isn't jungle-covered; looks like 4 to me. 5 if you count the city center.

OK. I see the problem.

Jungle has grown on BOTH the Ivory (should have spotted yesterday) and the grassland tile 1N where the alternative city goes! The latter only happened between Gaspar’s maps, and I was looking at the Azoth shot for my count. Sorry!

That does make pink dot a bit less attractive, I’m afraid.

Honestly, I think I agree it's time. And a 2nd worker can probably wait until we have Education and hence something for him to do. Realistically, since we're elves, once we do get Education we probably want to go to a minimum of 2 workers/city and stay there, but with only farms possible there's not really a cost to sticking with 1 worker.

Mardoc’s hit on the issue that we will soon have more to build than we have hammers for (At last! ). I think the biggest crunch is that if we go settler straight after Elder Council, then we want three more workers immediately when Education lands about the same time as we plant the second city. I think the most we can actually get is probably one, and then we might be short on warriors to deal with barbs. Looking forward to our glorious leader solving this problem.

[Gaspar]

Very short report tonight, as I'm quite exhausted. If I somehow can't sleep, I'll get at the attempted build plans today. If not, I'll do them tomorrow.

Score changes: Us 6 (pop), Elohim 11 (ancient tech)

I did possibly the most hideous micro of my entire life, and swapped to working the two farms plus 4 1/1/1 grassland hill tiles! Please revoke my civ playing card forever. There's not a lot one can do. I didn't need another worker yet, and this configuration actually shaves a turn off of Mysticism. I may swap again after I make a plan for getting the city planted, but for the time being, this was the optimal solution for fastest tech, delayed growth and 3T warrior. I'm not proud of it, though.



And with that, we sent the Brooklyn Brawler off to that dungeon, could we go 4 for 4 with hut/lair pops? (To this point we've gotten Fishing tech, 82g and an Adventurer)

<drumroll>





With that, onto the Grigori.

[NobleHelium]

On crazy stuff, well someone's on 42k soldier points, that's crazy. And someone's already gotten a pair of techs from huts/lairs whatever. To me, you shouldn't turn this stuff off, fair or not, its a huge part of what makes FFH2, FFH2. If we think its fun to watch someone (not us) fight off a mistform, its also got to be ok when they pop CoL from a dungeon. I'm suspecting I'm in the minority here, but that's my feeling. If you want a more finely balanced game, the BTS forum in northwards.

My gut tells me we'll see less and less unique features, Acheron's, Orthuses, Lairs, Barrows, Ruins and Unique Features as time goes on as a community. I hope I'm wrong, though.

I wholly agree with this. FFH2 is going to be inherently random, because you can't turn off events and whatnot. And it is decidedly considerably less balanced than BTS. So you might as well just enable all the randomness and go along with the ride.

[Mist]

I wholly agree with this. FFH2 is going to be inherently random, because you can't turn off events and whatnot.

You can, there's a switch for that too

To me, you shouldn't turn this stuff off, fair or not, its a huge part of what makes FFH2, FFH2. If we think its fun to watch someone (not us) fight off a mistform, its also got to be ok when they pop CoL from a dungeon. I'm suspecting I'm in the minority here, but that's my feeling. If you want a more finely balanced game, the BTS forum in northwards.

My gut tells me we'll see less and less unique features, Acheron's, Orthuses, Lairs, Barrows, Ruins and Unique Features as time goes on as a community. I hope I'm wrong, though.

Since I was the person suggesting this particular twist, I can give you my reasoning. I did not look for balance. I looked for a slightly more predictable game after a string of wild ones and for a more difficult / harder / interesting early game. If your curious, see what happens when barb unit limit on the map is not soaked up by skelies and lizards tied on barrows. Especially on low water larger maps.

And please, please don't relegate me to play BTS. I did enough boring math exercises in my life

[NobleHelium]

You can't turn off events in FFH2, though. It'd break the game.