[SPOILERS] MNG as Hattie of France

[Mr. Nice Guy]

And... I met Yuris/Maestro of the Ottomans in the east over the land bridge. Clarifies some things about the maps.... and pictures to come...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Diplo dump time: First my message to Commodore (that quotes his):

Hi Commodore,

What a busy day, but I finally have a chance to answer some of your questions:

[COLOR="Orange"]First off, scouting/map situation. My scout came in from a 1-tile wide land bridge that connects my home island to yours. I noted in the beginning of my thread that I prefer to avoid NAPs that lock players into long-term peace with runaways, but I can assure you that there's no conflict on my horizons for quite some time. I'd be willing to make a settling agreement for the near (meaning 'till ~t100 at least) term, I don't settle north of the "base" of the land bridge and you don't settle south of it. None of this is critical to get decided on soon, by the way, just some initial thoughts. I'm happy to discuss other trades/agreements/etc as they come up.

[/COLOR]I agree that NAPs tend to hurt the game more than help it. I don't know if you followed PB3 at all, but I made some diplomatic mistakes. One was signing NAPs that made my intentions too clear to "the enemy". The other was agreeing to settling contracts (especially with Krill) that I shouldn't have, without 100% information. So for the time being, I will aim to avoid those same mistakes. Rest assured that I do have peaceful intentions despite having the highest soldier count in the game.

[COLOR="Orange"]Finally, have you made contact with anyone else in-game yet? Sorry to go the twenty-questions route, but
you're the first I've bumped into and I was wondering how far away most people were from each other.

[/COLOR]Well, you were my first and only contact. Until, of course, I opened the save 5 minutes after reading this e-mail this morning. My second contact was Yuri to the east. Just like with the two of us, there is a one-tile land bridge connecting my nation and his. Care to venture a guess on the nature of the map?

[COLOR="Orange"]
Hey, just a quick note, my scout was trying to hop around your borders whilst fleeing a lion. I think he went the wrong way (eastwards). Do you mind me trying to loop around seeking other contacts? If you want to tell me how to move my scout around while in your lands that'll be fine.

[/COLOR]Actually eastbound would be the right direction. Unfortunately for your scouting efforts, my cultural borders have blocked off any further northbound traffic for now. Do you expect to have writing soon? I'd be happy to offer OB if you do.


Until later,

MNG, Hattie of France

[Mr. Nice Guy]

.... And Yuri:

[COLOR="Green"]We're just as excited to welcome you to Radioland! Our radio stations
will play festive music all day to celebrate this occasion! Hope you
have peaceful intentions, and our Workers don't have to fear that big
club your Warrior has [/COLOR]

Yes, as much as I would love to pull a Krill, I'm far more interested in peaceful scouting than in T25 warfare.

[COLOR="Green"]
You will notice that our borders expanded this turn. If the plans of
your Warrior include exploration of the eastern lands, we'd like to
advise that the only way to get there is to the south of our capital.
Feel free to look around though!
[/COLOR]
Thanks for the advice, I've taken it!

[COLOR="Green"]
Should you wish to discuss any deals, we would be very happy to do so[/COLOR]

I may request OB soon, if that would be acceptable on your part.

[COLOR="Green"]
Would you mind us asking if you have met other nations?[/COLOR]

Actually, the timing is funny. I met Commodore half a turn before meeting you. In fact, I had just sent out a similarly short "well met" message to him when I opened the save and met your nation. Turns out it's a small world. Likewise, have you met anyone yet?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

And some screenshots:



So that's the Ottomans. They're not far behind us in expansion. They have a settler sitting to the west of their copper worker. If they move their worker on the hill adjacent to my warrior, I'd be seriously tempted to declare just to kill the worker. I don't think I'd actually do it, but I'd be tempted.

Anyway, having seen their land, I know I want it.



This screenshot settles it. The next city will go to the desert south of the gold. The presence of cows means I can squeeze something worthwhile up there.



And finally, the far south. For a tundra, this area looks pretty good.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

From Yuris:

Hi MNG,

> Yes, as much as I would love to pull a Krill, I'm far more interested in peaceful scouting than in T25 warfare.

[COLOR="Green"]That's very good to hear! Would you mind signing a formal agreement to
this effect? No Worker/Settler stealing until a certain date, say T50.
If you would prefer a full NAP, we would be interested in that as
well. We can include future OB agreement as part of the deal, if you'd
like. I'm afraid we can't offer it to you right now, as we don't have
Writing yet

Unfortunately, our brave explorer has fallen victim to a bear in the
eastern forests. Our radio stations played mournful music to honour
his memory and his efforts, but our scouting has been hampered since
then, and we didn't meet anyone except your fine nation yet. As you're
heading for the same forests, this also is a warning for you: watch
out for the bear!

Would you mind including my trusted colleague Maestro in diplomatic messages to our team? Both of us
have the power to negotiate and sign treaties, although occasionally
we will need to discuss matters between ourselves during negotiations.
We're also available on GTalk, if you're interested in a chat

Best regards
yuris125, Music Director of Radioland[/COLOR]

Sorry to say, but I don't intend to sign any NAPs this early. After PB3, the mystique of diplomacy wore off for me. I no longer care about maintaining a "persona". And keeping track of diplomatic deals just doesn't appeal to me - I don't have that much time. So I'll tell him, honestly but clearly, that I'm not interested in any such deals at this point in time. Once we know more, I believe diplomacy will help win the game, but for now I don't want to even appear to be getting in bed with anyone.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

From Com of Modor:

[COLOR="Orange"]

Hey MNG,

Understand about the caution towards settling agreements without knowledge of the map, don't worry about it. Scout away, just please let me know when/if you do begin settling south (more south than the land bridge, that is) and we'll discuss it then (I'd send screenshots, but did we vote no screens until Paper?)

I should have writing soonishly, once I finish all those basic worker techs that needed like, y'know, Agriculture, The Wheel...never again will I pay so little attention to starting techs in a game with humans. ;P You might have them before me, actually, if you're trying to get those nice cheap libraries in play early. It's fine though, my scout hopped away SE, no sign of the wildlife anymore. I'll head out via the "spoke" that direction.

As you can see above, my theory is that we're all on a "ring" with "spokes" all poking to the middle of the map, much like the hilariously terrible early Hyborian attempts at making one of these "wheel" thingys.

May your Pyramids be pointy,[/COLOR]

It sounds like his map assumptions are identical to mine. But I don't remember what we decided about map trading, either. I'm going to have to look back into the rules of the game, I think....

And, I wonder how close he is to writing? I'm now looking at 4 turns, after saving gold for a turn this morning. If he asked, I'd give him open borders, but I don't suspect he'll be heading back my way soon, as I know that the spoke he's headed toward is long and interesting.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

News of the day:

*Stonehenge was BIAFL. Probably Ranamar/Lewwyn/7, as they had a big score increase. I guess they couldn't wait to put that industrial trait to use. Not the opening I would prefer, but then I did choose Cultural as a trait, so I guess that's something..

*Orleans' borders expanded. Paris continued working a settler, which it will whip next turn. That settler will become Gold city. In other words, all continues according to plan on the homefront.

*I will wind up wanting to produce an axe or two (maybe at Orleans?) to (a) provide security and (b) provide better scouting. The map is sure interesting, and I'm starting to get some theories out of it. Screenshots later, I'll try and get angles that give context to my theories.

*Commodore is still at 1 city, Yuris is at 2 with me. I'm wondering if Commodore will settle city #2 before I hit #3. He only has a few more turns...

*I think I may want to settle the stone with city #5. If the map turns out to be spokes like we think, the "edge" cities will be pretty important. Getting walls into those edge cities will make a world of difference when conflict occurs. So I think I'm going to try simming out city #5 there, with research into masonry. I doubt I'll actually go to Pyramids, as I will have put stone off too long. But with this expansion heavy strategy, maybe I could go Hanging Gardens? Ivory city will be production heavy, especially with 6 choppable forests. The forests by themselves could make it happen.

What if I went writing-hunting-maths-masonry, while setting ivory city up with chops? An extra worker could come from Orleans to help with the efforts. I could pretty easily get up to a 6th city before it got to be too late. Hmmmm.. something to try to make happen. When has that wonder been falling in other PBEMs? Anyone lurking enough to know that?

Okay... that's all for now. Pictures after a bit, as well as a (brief) diplo update.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

It's getting to the point where my sandbox game is less and less helpful - too many variables yet to be uncovered. But I can tell you that in my best simulation:

After T44... keep two workers at Rheims pre-chopping forests.
By T52 I should be whipping an aqueduct in Rheims
City 6 settled ~ T54
HG should be finished ~ T55 if Rheims goes WB-Granary-Aqueduct-HG

I think T55 is not a bad completion date for the Hanging Gardens... what do you think?

[mackoti]

iTs a very good date but i realy dont know if realy worht with 6 cities, try to squeze 1 or 2 more.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

iTs a very good date but i realy dont know if realy worht with 6 cities, try to squeze 1 or 2 more.

I could probably wind up getting 2 more cities by that date without even pushing too hard, as I kind of ignored my #2 and #3 cities in the sims, so putting a settler out at each wouldn't be that tough. It might crash the economy but more times than not, the HG seems to be a major wonder to land and early expansion seems to be extremely important in these PBEM games.