Springtime for Commodore in Germany

[Commodore]

Goosestep's, the new step, in town...

Okay, I have one of the floaty-thingies and two of the little canon dudes. I have no idea how to move! Help!

[Commodore]

Heh, okay, it's actually not that bad. I'm a bit naif, but not actually a moron, so let's play this sucker.



Here's the initial start position. I'm Germany, in a commanding position to take lots and lots of centers and feeling free to turn, wheel, and deal with every other player on the map. The two issues are:
-Everyone eventually wants my territory to be theirs for the win.
-Uberfish has been playing an excellent game and is clearly the strongest player in game 1.

These are...not insignificant issues. An unfortunate result of the only other game having a strong Germany is that I need to make it very clear very early that I'm playing a different game from Uberfish in terms of moves and alliances, while at the same time playing the same game as Uberfish in terms of, y'know, actually acquiring a ton of centers. I'd love to work with France especially to gut England early, while subtly encouraging Italy to pressure France to prevent it from becoming a runaway itself. Analysis of the other players coming in a bit.

[Commodore]

Okay, let's do this alphabetically.

Austria: Sciz

I read somewhere that one out of every three Austrias come to a bad end quickly. That's not something I'd like to see happen, although if it did happen, if I can arrange for many of the spoils to go to an eastward-facing Italy rather than Russia, that would be excellent. A-T would be fine too, as long as Gaspar didn't totally make a hash of it and die instantly.

Sciz is a bit of a cipher to me, seems an okay Civ player, but I have no clear mental picture of how he'll be diplomatically. The only thing I'll be working on in the near-term is making sure he doesn't go adventuring towards me, which would be suicide, but the kind that splashes.

England: Jkaen

Jkaen has already sent me a cheerful "let's work together" message, which seems to be kinda mass-emaily, if that makes any sense. The Civer Jkaen seems impulsive and easily distracted, which might translate to frivolous stabs. If EG does form, I'm pretty sure I can steer him without needing a hard stab.

England itself is an odd duck, very safely ensconced upon its little island...but needing to really reach for those centers. I'll be encouraging as many aggressive moves as possible for jolly little England, hopefully steering her into pissing off Russia.

France: Bob

Crud. Bob is an active diplomat, and I'm certain he's going to be working the phones with more energy than me. Hrm. It's possible he'd work best if he feels like he's in charge of an FG alliance. I'll wait for feelers and seek his guidance, hopefully giving him the feel of a very nervous but competent junior partner in the alliance. If I can comfortably take Scandinavia and the lowlands, he is welcome to running the fleet side of Operation: Sealion. (Note to self. Read up on what the heck a sealion opening is)

Italy: TT

Ah, Twinkletoes. Burned thrice, eight billion times shy. I get paranoid vibes off some of his stuff around the forums, not sure how that will translate into Diplomacy. In a perfect world, Italy would be my closest ally, able to snipe the potential powerhouses to my west and east, but having a hard time gaining traction my way. Depending on how things with Bob and Sciz go, I may wind up supporting him into Austria early...again, Austria falling and the new eastern triangle being Turkey/Russia/Italy would be nice. Not sure how to make it happen though.

Russia: Gaspar

Ah, Gaspar. Easily one of the more entertaining reporters around here, not nearly as aggressive as he thinks he is. I like Gaspar and would love to see him do well...but a strong Russia sucks for everyone else. I might work at dangling Sweden as bait for a lack of pressure down south. If I can swing getting him and England at each other's throats, that'd be wonderfully stupid. While I doubt Gaspar will be fooled by much that anyone says, his eerie people-reading abilities aren't backed by equal people-convincing abilities. Thank goodness.

Turkey: Jowy

Jowy, who really needs an "r" in that name somewhere. Not a lot to say for him. I hope and pray Gaspar can't sweet-talk him into RT, which is really just R. No clear picture of his personality, but if he's playing a smart and cagey Turkey he should be able to make slow and steady progress. If I'm directly in conflict with him anywhere west of Vienna, I've screwed the pooch badly and that's probably game.


So, that's the analysis. Time will tell for how much energy I can put into this, but it should be fun. I lay about even odds that I get E/F'd into mush by 1902.

[scooter]

If I can comfortably take Scandinavia and the lowlands, he is welcome to running the fleet side of Operation: Sealion. (Note to self. Read up on what the heck a sealion opening is)

Pretty good write-up here:

http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/resources...ealion.htm

[Commodore]

Oh mein gutness, there's been a lot of diplo.

First off, Jkaen has been regularly pinging me:

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Hi Commodore,

Looks like you have Germany to my England in the game, and from what I see one of the initial early alliances seems to be England / Germany, so I thought I should check in.

Any initial plans for the game yet?

If you want to chat at any point, my email is (..)[/COLOR]

I replied.
[COLOR="Silver"]Wow, awesome, so it's already begun. I'm still in the initial planning phase, but I certainly agree, from the looks of the first one England and Germany make good natural allies. It's currently something I'm reading up on, but looks like a quick decapitation strike towards France is an excellent way to begin. We'll have to look into how to keep it from breaking down as quickly as in Diplo #1, maybe some sort of "you get the sea, I get the land" building plan.

Looking forward to working with you,
-Commodore[/COLOR]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Yup, I have been reading up, and from what I can see eventually England has to head South anyway. I think the alliance in diplomacy 1 was working quite well between England and Germany except that Italy confused things a bit, and maybe England got a bit greedy.

If they continued on as they were talking I struggle to see how the aliiance would have been stopped[/COLOR]

I completely agree, and it does look like England must break into the Mediterranean Sea to win. I think we can certainly try again for the powerhouse EG, and we can worry less about Italy confusing things this time, because TT seems to be looking eastward (please keep that confidential). What are your early goals for this turn. Belgium/Norway? Or are you looking to head south earlier than that?

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Thinking of Belgium Norway to get a few centres running. Chatting to France at the moment to try and manouver him into an easier position to control, at the very least I want him happy about me moving to the channel in the spring.

Current guess on opening moves is Fleets in channel and North sea, army in York. Any ideas on yours?[/COLOR]

I need to pacify him and encourage him to bounce Eng, because I had a chat with Bob too:

me: Salut, mon ami
12:52 PM
bobchillingworth: Bonjovi!

me: Comment alli vous?

bobchillingworth: uh um

fromage
12:53 PM
du jour

me: Heh, that was the extent of my French too.

bobchillingworth: so, what's up?
12:54 PM
also: which country are you

:P

germany?

me: Germany, kinda to your right

bobchillingworth: cool, yeah
12:55 PM
me: You getting a feel for how the rules work still?

bobchillingworth: I think I've got a fairly good idea

still got some questions about some stuff
12:56 PM
like, if a convoy unit is forced to retreat, can it drop off it's payload?

but the basics I think I have down

me: Um

I think the convoy just "never happened"

bobchillingworth: hmm, k

not at all relevant now, anyway
12:57 PM
just an example of the kind of stuff I'll have to ask lurkers about later, probably

me: Yeah.

bobchillingworth: I'm trying to stay unspoiled as best as I can for strats online tho

very complex game, for something with so few pieces and territories, but more fun to figure out stuff as I go along, I think

me: So I imagine Jkaen has already been sending you hyper messages about how you need to destroy the evil axis.

bobchillingworth: haha

maybe!

yeah

actually
12:58 PM
very first message I got

haha

me: Yeah, he was telling me how to destroy frogs.

bobchillingworth: makes sense
12:59 PM
me: Well, England doesn't have a ton of traction.

bobchillingworth: I mean, obviously he wants to have us weaken each other so that he can claim our respective coasts

huge concentration of strat points along there

me: Yep

bobchillingworth: I'm very glad I didn't get italy or ottomans

they're just nowhere near the good stuff

me: Heh, poor Italy.
1:00 PM
TT is a bit nervous, I'm thinking.

bobchillingworth: He said that italy was one of his top choices actually

allegedly he wants to be an underdog :P

me: Well, it's a ready-made excuse for losing.
1:01 PM
bobchillingworth: yeah

plus, does he even need the help?

haha

now I'll lose to him, of cours

me: I doubt it.

At least, nowhere near soon

He's going all-in against Austria
1:02 PM
Which is nice for you...for me it means Mun needs early cover.

bobchillingworth: I'd believe it- he offered me a dmz arrangement at piedmont

it's not too bad for you, either!

lets you set up in the north
1:03 PM
maybe get a fleet, if you don't start with one

me: I start with one.

But that basically must move north to keep Russia honest.
1:04 PM
Hrm

I wonder if you could get Spa and Por this year.

bobchillingworth: spain should be a gimmie

portugal seems risky

I think england will try to grab the channel ASAP
1:05 PM
me: Oh, bump that.

bobchillingworth: do me in like scooter did to Nakor

me: That's a given.

bobchillingworth: yeah

me: No France should ever let England into the Chanel.
1:06 PM
So, are you wanting an FG
1:07 PM
In the interests of making this game clearly not a repeat ('cause uberfish's nation would otherwise get dogpiled).

bobchillingworth: FG?

france-germany alliance?

me: France and Germany vs. England.
1:08 PM
Nothing against Jkaen, I've just already seen it done.

bobchillingworth: sure!

do you have a plan in mind?

I haven't given this game a ton of thought yet, I'll be honest

me: Hrm.
1:09 PM
Let's see, both of us have at least one unti tied up early.

Mun has to cover against Italy and Bre must bump uglies with England.
1:10 PM
bobchillingworth: right

me: On the other hand, England can be restricted to just one center if I help you into Belgium
1:11 PM
Which along with Spain gives you two.

I get Den and Holland.
1:12 PM
bobchillingworth: lemme pull up the map here
1:14 PM
me: Only issue is if he goes for the less-sure thing and tries to bump Hol

But then he gets nothing

bobchillingworth: well, he's made it clear to me that he wants the channel

I'm sure he'll try for it

me: Might want to encourage it.

I will too.

bobchillingworth: yeah
1:15 PM
me: Man, dude, seriously, pick a side, don't try to opportunistically snipe.
1:16 PM
bobchillingworth: who said anything about sniping?

me: Oh, that's just what Jkaen is positioning himself for.

bobchillingworth: oh hah

me: If he's in Eng with a fleet and army in Belgium, he can keep playing both sides.
1:17 PM
bobchillingworth: Right, he actually sent me what he said his orders would be- of course in the context of better "helping" me take belgium

Lon-Eng, Lvp-York, Edi-Nwy
1:18 PM
me: Oh that's helpful alright.

bobchillingworth: so, he'd bump in the channel, york is in prep to convoy, and nwy is obviously his

meanwhile, I move the paris army to pic I guess
1:19 PM
you should be able to take hol with kie, but you said you want to move that towards russia

but you could move ber to kie

after moving the fleet out

me: Right

bobchillingworth: um then let's see
1:20 PM
me: Den/Swe are actually connected.

bobchillingworth: k

I'd have a two strength army for belgium, relying on my own support for the next cycle
1:21 PM
you'd have... only one strength for holland, maybe?

me: Actually, fall would be Pie-Bel, with my fleet in Hol supporting.
1:22 PM
bobchillingworth: kie, instead of pie, yeah? :P

unless I'm misreading this map

me: Ah, see, that's spring vs. fall

Spring F kie-hol.
1:23 PM
Then Fall F hol supports A pie-bel
1:24 PM
Which Jkaen can't counter.

Assuming you've kept him out of Eng, of course.
1:25 PM
bobchillingworth: k- but I think you mean pic instead of pie

being that Pie is down near TT

me: Oh!

Pic, not pie

bobchillingworth: haha np

me: Sorry, working from memory there.
1:26 PM
phone, brb

bobchillingworth: k
6 minutes
1:32 PM
me: Back

bobchillingworth: k
1:33 PM
not that I object, but if you move kie to hol this season, doesn't that leave you at risk from russia?

losing the baltic?
1:34 PM
me: Not so much the baltic as Sweden

It's fine if he gets Swe, as long as it's not with other SCs
1:35 PM
bobchillingworth: are you planning to take den w/ ber, or keep ber in place to defend?

I guess you will be able to produce a defense army in time

me: den w/ ber

bobchillingworth: since you gain a point w/ holland
1:36 PM
that area of the map is kind of a mess

me: Yeah, so that's two sc

bobchillingworth: does hel sail straight through den?
1:37 PM
me: Yeah, it's odd.

bobchillingworth: ah okay, so it's a cannal like con

me: Yeah
1:38 PM
bobchillingworth: makes sense

well I'm agreed to the plan so far

me: Cool.
1:39 PM
By all means, study whatever you need to.

I'm trying to read up too.

bobchillingworth: yeah, it's not as fun though to read about pro gambits, at least not for me

I'd rather my accomplishments be my own

and if I screw everything up, I don't actually care that much :D
1:40 PM
me: Oh, less pro articles, more dang rules.

bobchillingworth: ah, yeah. Well for that that I'm limited to as much as I can stand :P
1:41 PM
me: I'm sure all of us will make illegal moves that Nakor will smack down.

bobchillingworth: although I've never played diplomacy before, I've done some diplo-Risk variants, which are very fun with a good group of friends who you don't mind wanting to kill after seven hours of backroom chats and backstabs
1:42 PM
me: Risk is awesome.

bobchillingworth: but no matter how much diplo you put into risk, it's still a strategy combat game / dice rolling skill test
1:43 PM
obviously this is a very different beat

beast*

seems pretty tough to actually kill an army

me: Yeah, I'm getting that.

bobchillingworth: just need to bleed people dry

nibble at territories

until their stuff evaporates
1:44 PM
me: Yeah, that seems to be how it goes.

So it looks like FG is in effect, unless of course it isn't.

[Commodore]

TT has a plan for going all-in vs. Austria.

jbtwinkletoes89: guten abend Herr Commodore

me: Ave, TT

How's Italy this time of year? :-)
3:32 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: enjoying your Producers reference in your thread title!

me: Heh, I was wondering if anyone would get that.
3:33 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: Lets hope bob & sciz haven't heard of the song with the lyrics 'winter for poland and france!'

me: Heh.

jbtwinkletoes89: may not be the best of starts!
3:34 PM
me: It's nothing personal, obviously.

If it gets to the forties I'll be calling it.
3:35 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: so... the game. What are your initial thoughts?

me: Beyond "help!?!"

Heh, looks like we can work together quite well, actually.
3:36 PM
G-I aren't really competing for much, and they can support each other.

jbtwinkletoes89: Yeah - the only thing we have problems with it Tyrolia
3:37 PM
but as long as we DMZ it we will be fine even if Austria is cheeky

me: Yeah, that's a bit of a sticky wicket.

I'd love to DMZ it.
3:38 PM
Any idea how your Austria relations are going?
3:39 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: not spoken yet. Only spoken to you & Gaspar (Russia) so far

me: Hrm
3:42 PM
Grr, sorry, Hamster-powered work computer is hating all this window switching.

jbtwinkletoes89: np
3:43 PM
me: Bah, I'll need to restart.

For the moment barring opportunity knocking, I'm for DMZ'ing Tyrolia.
3:44 PM
If it looks like Austria is getting steamrolled, I'll support you into Tri.

Can't let Gaspar go juggernaught.
3:45 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: true, true. I think Austria could be a bigger target in this game given Lewwyn's success

me: Yep.

ducks
3:46 PM
I'm not Uber. Let this be known!

jbtwinkletoes89: lol we shall see ;-) - I'm no Rowain either

me: Hah, true.
3:47 PM
Although his murkiness seems to have made for an Italy at least in contention.

jbtwinkletoes89: depends on the next few turns. If Germany isn't taken down a notch or two, he could be well absorbed by Austria & Germany
3:48 PM
me: Yeah, we'll have to see.

It'll be funny to see scooter grasp at straws.

jbtwinkletoes89: yeah - still rooting for him for his great thread

me: Exactly.
3:49 PM
Bleh, sorry to have to hop off, but this thing is not working well.

I'll be back on in ~20 minutes or so.

jbtwinkletoes89: its no probs

should still be on

me: Cool, 'till then.
46 minutes
4:35 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: All fixed?
4:36 PM
me: Heh, such as it is.

More RAM is the only permanant fix.
4:37 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: I'd just like to talk about Tyrolia for a moment

me: Sure
4:38 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: One avenue I am considering is moving my armies up to Tyrolia & Venice respectively - which would put a heck of a lot of pressure on Austria's home centres

me: Right

jbtwinkletoes89: he will already be under pressure in the balkans by Jowy's natural westwards movement & perhaps my taking of Greece in winter - putting him in a very very difficult position
4:39 PM
me: Hrm

Wait, so a hard eastwards push with everything

jbtwinkletoes89: effectively

but not so crazy that I would be exposed
4:40 PM
me: Balkans is the rich land, if you can get a toehold there you're golden.

jbtwinkletoes89: yeah - I just wanted to raise this with you given that Tyrolia unfortunately also threatens Munich]

me: Hrm, that is annoying.
4:41 PM
Because I'd much rather be free to run around westward/NW

jbtwinkletoes89: I know - i thought that would be your aim so it would be rude for me not to mention it
4:42 PM
me: That much is appreciated.

I don't suppose I could encourage you to make that push in the fall?
4:43 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: you could, but the worry then is that he could hold out for the extra build and then makes it harder for me to threaten a 2 v 1

me: True.
4:44 PM
I take it you and Gaspar are going for a fast squeeze?

jbtwinkletoes89: possibly - though its mainly jowy I'm floating this with right now

You could move east to bohemia and then have a good chance to take vienna?
4:45 PM
me: Hrm

That has possibilities.

jbtwinkletoes89: it would be 3 vs 2 and would be guaranteed to lose 1 home S

SC
4:46 PM
me: The only difficulty is that's a hard SC for me to hold.
4:47 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: I see, but it could be workable
4:48 PM
me: Hrm, so IT is trying for early Austria takeout? That's a good all-in for you.

jbtwinkletoes89: Yeah

best chance really

me: Yep
4:49 PM
Only difficulty is that also let a runaway France control the western Med.

jbtwinkletoes89: England wouldn't want a dominant france
4:50 PM
me: Nope.

jbtwinkletoes89: If you like, I can approach Russia to threaten Galicia and then you can focus westwards

me: Jkaen would have to be in on it.
4:51 PM
Hrm, That'd end it for A quick.
4:52 PM
As I said, I'd rather you come out ahead in the usual Austria division.

jbtwinkletoes89: I will be looking to do so

given my lack of options
4:53 PM
me: GI is more or less the only equal long-term alliance that Germany can maintain without major acrobatics, it would seem.

Hrm

Boh might be worth it if you could support me into Vienna during the fall.
14 minutes
5:08 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: I think that you will need to move W though
5:09 PM
me: Yeah, Gaspar and I are talking about it.

If it's an all-in against Austria, it needs to be an all-in

jbtwinkletoes89: too right

and I'm ready to be all in

Turkey has little choice but to be all in
5:10 PM
and its pretty cheap for Russia

me: That's what makes Turkey's life so nice.

Nice climate, great food, and must attack through the Balkans.
5:11 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: lol
5:14 PM
so would you ideally be looking to go MUN -> RUH then?

me: Hrm

Well, it'd be nice to be able to

But no point to that if I need to check back at Mun.
5:15 PM
No offense, I'm sure your intentions are as pure as driven snow.

jbtwinkletoes89: I could offer to make Tyrolia a DMZ once Austria's SCs start falling?

me: It's just, hey, free center.

jbtwinkletoes89: I know

me: Hrm.

jbtwinkletoes89: Let me know if you have something you want me to sign to prove I will not move on Munich
5:16 PM
me: So I help by going Boh, but after that I stay out and you DMZ Tyr.
5:18 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: We could do something else

if I let you go into Tyr and support me into Tri then we could DMZ it?
5:19 PM
also prevents him bouncing me out of Ven and causing hiccups
5:20 PM
me: Hrm.

Sorry, coworker emailed w/ question

jbtwinkletoes89: I can then move my army up to Ven in winter so no chance of a stab
5:21 PM
me: Hrm
5:22 PM
That sounds a lot more doable.

And you're protected too.

I'm going to say that sounds pretty good right now, but of course I need to talk to Bob and Jkaen more.
5:23 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: yeah - please keep this under your hat though

me: Oh, naturally.

btwinkletoes89: hey there

me: Hey, looks like I'll be able to free up Mun's army.
1:20 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: excellent! Reached a deal with the western powers?

or just want a piece of the action lol?

me: Heh
1:21 PM
Well, it's looking like Bob is willing to help if you can keep that DMZ between you

jbtwinkletoes89: hmmmm

you told bob of the austrian scheme?

me: Nothing specific.
1:22 PM
Just that you didn't seem keen to pressure him early.

jbtwinkletoes89: fair enough
1:23 PM
me: He needed some assurance

jbtwinkletoes89: have you spoken much to sciz (austria)?

me: Nope, actually.
1:24 PM
Only one I haven't seen online

jbtwinkletoes89: cool

basically I'm playing the move into Tyr as an anti-german move to him

saying I'm trying to get you to see I won't just 'do your bidding against france'
1:25 PM
which you know i won't do anyway :-)

me: Hah, nice

jbtwinkletoes89: so if you can speak to him and talk of our strained relations it would be helpful

me: Sure
1:26 PM
Oh crud, gotta answer this. brb

jbtwinkletoes89: kk
5 minutes
1:32 PM
me: Back
1:33 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: wb

me: Okay, sciz is being informed of my utter hated for all things Italiano.
1:34 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: excellent

If your Munich army is free - perhaps supporting me into Tyr may be best? You can't be stabbed and we can't be bounced either
1:35 PM
me: How much of a KO on Austria do you want?

jbtwinkletoes89: ideally elimination
1:36 PM
if we all get into position T1 then there is very little he can do to stop us

me: I might be able to trade Sweden for Gaspar's support into vie in the fall
1:38 PM
If you can support yourself into Tri and I take vie, that's game over.
1:39 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: true - though I do then end up with a lot less stuff

me: Oh, I can pull out in '02
1:42 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: that sounds possible

me: Yep
1:43 PM
I'd pull out in Fall '02, because the price for R supporting me into vie is me helping him into bud
1:45 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: How would you go into Vienna if you support me into Tyrolia in spring?

me: Ah, you think you'll need the support?

jbtwinkletoes89: possibly - I don't want to risk a double bounce which leaves my units where they started
1:46 PM
he bounces me in Tyrolia & my Rome unit cannot move into venice

me: You need Turkey to seem to be leaving Gre open, methinks.
1:47 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: Turkey will do the predictable moves this turn
6 minutes
1:53 PM
jbtwinkletoes89: would you be interested in telling sciz to try and bounce me out of Tyrolia?

you support me & then he cannot bounce Russia away
1:54 PM
me: Hrm

I can float that to him

jbtwinkletoes89: it would go along with the strained relations
1:55 PM
if you manage to convince him to do it and we get him out of position, I may be willing to let you keep Vienna a little longer

his first moves could really force an early kill
1:56 PM
if we can all play him right

me: Well, it'd need to be longer because then I'd be getting in '02

jbtwinkletoes89: yeah of course

[Commodore]

Talked to Jowy, Gaspar, and will soon hit up Sciz to complete the set. Upshot it, I'll be trying for Hol/Den as my centers this year. Bob should be able to help a great deal to shut out Jkaen, and Mun holding should give fair flexibility if needed. Not really much point in over-analysis before a single order has been given.

[Commodore]

Okay, movement question, can an A-Den move into Swe?

[Maniac Marshall]

Okay, movement question, can an A-Den move into Swe?

A: Yes

EDIT: It might be further useful to note that Sweden, Kiel, and Denmark are NOT Multi-Coastal (ie do not have separate coasts) like Spain, Bulgaria, and St. Petersburg, so that a fleet in one of these locations can move to/support action in any non-inland province that boarders them, regardless of where they entered from.

[T-hawk]

like, if a convoy unit is forced to retreat, can it drop off it's payload?

I think the convoy just "never happened"

That's right. If a fleet ordered to convoy gets dislodged, the convoy does not happen and the would-be-convoyed army stays where it was.