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luddite Wrote:What the eff??? When I talked to you about the possibility of a trade embargo against LP you basically said that I shouldn't tell you anything because you'd have to pass it on the LP. I tried asking sunrise too, but no response from him. After that I was afraid to even mention the alliance plans because I figured you pass on all information to LP. It's hard to negotiate under those circumstances.
edit- pretty sure I also told you at some point that we all had long term NAPs with LP. It's neat that you "wouldn't have interfered" if we had attacked earlier, but it's not like we had anything to attack with either. I only got rifling on turn 185, and I don't think nakor/gaspar ever got rifling.
The main reason we didn't offer anything was you never asked for anything and you basically kept fishing for freebies in our estimation. I suppose would have offered something if you actually seemed interested in working with us and not just poaching land from us. 
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"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."
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fluffyflyingpig Wrote:I seem to recall a great hue and cry over quitters here at RB. WarlordDR and Aptolyon demo game come to mind...but if he or sunrise and co object I'm happy to stand down.
I hope it's clear that regoarrarr and I are perfectly willing to keep playing if there's less than universal agreement to end the game.
No objection from me or (I think) regoarrarr. I disagree with your sentiments, but also understand perspectives can be wildly divergent between team A, team B, an unbiased lurker, a biased lurker, and a game admin.
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luddite Wrote:What the eff??? When I talked to you about the possibility of a trade embargo against LP you basically said that I shouldn't tell you anything because you'd have to pass it on the LP. I tried asking sunrise too, but no response from him. After that I was afraid to even mention the alliance plans because I figured you pass on all information to LP. It's hard to negotiate under those circumstances.
I certainly accept responsibility for being massively out of the diplo loop this game. Other than that, and with the power of hindsight, I'd have suggested you try a "can we talk about something you agree to keep secret" sort of message.
luddite Wrote:It's neat that you "wouldn't have interfered" if we had attacked earlier, but it's not like we had anything to attack with either. I only got rifling on turn 185, and I don't think nakor/gaspar ever got rifling. This is the usual tension in civ for sure. There's always a reason to delay an attack, but usually the mass numbers swarm works better the earlier you do it. Of course it's a balancing act, but waiting to t200 or whatever this is was obviously too long. Now t190 or t180 or whatever may have gone even worse...
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sunrise089 Wrote:This is the usual tension in civ for sure. There's always a reason to delay an attack, but usually the mass numbers swarm works better the earlier you do it. Of course it's a balancing act, but waiting to t200 or whatever this is was obviously too long. Now t190 or t180 or whatever may have gone even worse... In retrospect we probably should have gone for mass macemen/cats/horse archers as soon as we started planning the alliance, or even sooner. Try and pump out so many units that he just can't touch them all with collateral. Even then it probably wouldn't have worked.
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Actualy i think you should in the beggining to focus agression towards somebody else  , in my opinion this was 50% Parkin victory,40% Luditte decision to let him to have such a huge piece of land, and 10 % Krill because he made this posible because of map design.
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sunrise089 Wrote:[i] also understand perspectives can be wildly divergent between team A, team B, an unbiased lurker, a biased lurker, and a game admin. Well said. That's something we all should try to remember when following (or playing) other games. 
There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, "This is new, and therefore better." - John Brunner, The Shockwave Rider
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mackoti Wrote:Actualy i think you should in the beggining to focus agression towards somebody else, in my opinion this was 50% Parkin victory,40% Luditte decision to let him to have such a huge piece of land, and 10 % Krill because he made this posible because of map design.
5% me, 5% others who thought Parkin had a weak starting area.
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Quote:5% me, 5% others who thought Parkin had a weak starting area.
Well because how i explored iseen alot of parkin area and i kept shouting to Luditte do something but he never listen.
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mackoti Wrote:Well because how i explored iseen alot of parkin area and i kept shouting to Luditte do something but he never listen.
Yeah... you weren't exactly a neutral 3rd party in this It was hard for me to trust you about anything.
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Just for the record - final counts
![[Image: postcount.jpg]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8082680/pb4/postcount.jpg)
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