This Time for Sure: Mardoc reprises the Lanun

[Jkaen]

Scout E - SE is a good idea, then at least you know if you can use the coast 2E, 2S and 2E, 3S should you SIP

[Mardoc]

What do you want to do about settling more cities?

Not enough information.

My general approach to new city settlement is to wait until I've maxxed the capital, though. Which is why I set that as the endpoint of the current sandbox

My inclination has two prompts: fishing unlocks improvement for three tiles, rather than one at a time (I’m not counting a plains farm as “improved”); and fishing will do more for commerce which means that the other things come faster. However, I feel the big counterbalance comes down to foodhammers for one worker early, versus hammers for at least 3 workboats and then you still need a worker later on.

Good summary. I think what needs to be sandboxed is (SIP Fishing first), (SIP Agri first), (1S Fishing first). I don't think any other option is plausible; if we move south it's for the extra cove. (1S essentially gives us 5 tiles at Fishing, Lake + Fish + 3 Coves...if the shipwreck doesn't ruin us).

And a final alternative so that Mardoc’s head really spins: send the scout investigating E-SE (hoping for a better city site) and then into the distance, leaving the city borders to pop the hut in a couple of turns if we still settle in place (but definitely settle before popping the hut )

Well...do city borders have 'improved chance of good result' like scouts do? I'll admit, if there's something in the fog we do want to know about it. I wouldn't put it past Bob to give us a gold tile just out of range :neenernee

[Jkaen]

borders can't get barbarians (obv bad) or bonus xp (likely to be a waste on a starting scout) pretty sure you can get a tech or gold, not sure if scout has a better chance at a tech though I admit

[Mardoc]

Dang it, I really want 3 coves. That would put the icing on the cake for why Lanun was a good choice. But then I look at this:

55% chance of a bad result, equal chance of:
- azer
- sea serpent
- stygian guard
- pirate
plus 0-4 henchmen, equal chance of:
- azer
- griffon
- drown

45% chance of a good result, equal chance of:
- treasure chest
- golden age
- tech
- friendly sea serpent
- crabs
- clams
- fish

Granted, that was Maenalus instead of a shipwreck. But even just the henchmen in a bad result are likely to be able to conquer us and rip up our coves. Unless...maybe shipwrecks have significantly better odds? Anyone who's read the code around?

OTOH, maybe Mist's intuition will turn out to be right, and coves remain a pretty but expensive distraction even with a coastal capital.

[Sareln]

@Mardoc

Collapse lair was discussed but never implemented. They don't spawn anything if you leave them alone you'know...

[DaveV]

Anyone who's read the code around?

At its most basic, you roll 0-99 and add the level of the exploring unit. If the exploring unit is level 1, it may be lost. Otherwise, results are:

1-13: BigBad - like the bad result in your quote
14-43: Bad - weaker monster (drown or sea serpent)
44-73: Neutral - if I'm reading it correctly, it's a coin flip: either nothing happens, or a drown spawns
74-93: Good - a moderate amount of gold, a treasure chest, or XP
94+: BigGood - like the good result in the quote

[Mardoc]

At its most basic, you roll 0-99 and add the level of the exploring unit. If the exploring unit is level 1, it may be lost. Otherwise, results are:

1-13: BigBad - like the bad result in your quote
14-43: Bad - weaker monster (drown or sea serpent)
44-73: Neutral - if I'm reading it correctly, it's a coin flip: either nothing happens, or a drown spawns
74-93: Good - a moderate amount of gold, a treasure chest, or XP
94+: BigGood - like the good result in the quote

And in all cases the shipwreck itself is cleared?

In any event, thanks for the info. Now just to decide how to deal with it.

They don't spawn anything if you leave them alone you'know...

Yeah . And if Bob had moved the wreck just a square further, I'd be happy to ignore it. Or, well, I still need to sandbox, if the delay coast plan makes more sense, if that launches us faster than Fishing, then we want the plains hill, and I can still ignore the wreck.

I suppose there's ~20 turns between the start time and (potentially) popping the lair, we could build a fair number of warriors (enough to handle most of the results).

I think we could handle anything but a BigBad with fortified warriors (equiv str 3 + 75% + culture (10%) = Str 5.55, much better than a Drown's Str 4. Even Azer at Str 6 could be manageable with numbers. Stygian, though, Str 10 + March...
And a Pirate would have nothing much to target except every cove we put down.

So the question is, are we willing to gamble on 13% of BigBad * ( 25% Azer chance of death, 25% nothing, 25% game ender or 25% cove destroyer)? Call it 10% chance of much more damage than an extra cove is worth, vs the 90% chance of leaving our foes further in the dust?

Still assumes, of course, that moving 1S and going Fishing first is the right answer. I've seen enough exceptions to my intuition, that it's still possible Mist is right and the consensus here is wrong. Won't know until I do the sandbox.

[Ichabod]

Interesting to note that a clam/fish/crab result would be bad, since you can't build coves on top of them.

[Mardoc]

Interesting to note that a clam/fish/crab result would be bad, since you can't build coves on top of them.

Now, that's not something you'll catch me complaining about, if it happens. .

Besides, I'm not sure I'd be willing to argue that a 6/0/3 tile instantly is worse than a 2/0/4 tile that one day will be a 4/2/6 tile. Especially in a capital aiming to REX.

[DaveV]

And in all cases the shipwreck itself is cleared?

BigBad - never cleared
Bad - 50% cleared
Neutral - 100% cleared on Nothing; 50% cleared on Drown
Good - 90% cleared on gold, 80% on treasure, 100% on XP
BigGood - 100% cleared