League of Legends General Discussion Thread

[Deceptus]

My Nocturne page is 21/9/0 at the moment; I've decided to abandon the Utility buff. 21 in offense because on Nocturne I rely on getting off good ganks and getting tanky later.
My Skarner/Rammus page is 9/21/0 with Bladed Armor; they're ridiculously fast with those masteries. The Initiator movespeed buff is awesome for invading and helps closing the gap in ganks.
Generic caster page for the time being is 21/9/0, but that's only because I saw Reginald play like that - I don't get a ton of caster picking myself; if I were to play Fiddlesticks, I'd rather use 18/0/12 to capitalize on the spellvamp mastery in the utility tree.
My Junglewick page is 9/21/0, except it focuses on slightly different stuff than Skarner/Rammus one - notably it makes use of the Enlightment mastery that gives CDR/lvl, as CDR is one of the strongest things on Warwick and actually is one of the only ways you can buff his damage output.
My Support page is 0/0/30, but I don't think it's good and I'm going to mix it with defensive masteries, something like 0/x/y.

I have yet to toy around with those masteries some more, since a few of those still need testing.

[uberfish]

The 21/9/0 9/21/0 jungle setups do indeed look optimal. It's a significant buff compared to the previous masteries easily seen if you start with a vamp sceptre - also I'd take both Initiator and Enlightenment on anyone going 21 defence.

the pages I set up were:

I go 21/0/9 on mages/ranged AD for the movement speed in Utility
9/21/0 on tanks
Caster-support can go 9/0/21 for 10% CDR as before

[Krill]

I'm currently trying to mess about with masteries and runes to see if I can play a Soraka as tanky-support, thinking that I might end up something like 0/18/12 with Avarice quints for max gold generation. That said, I'm not sure exactly what to use as the runes, maybe AP reds, Armour or health per level yellows, cooldown blues?

[spellman]

I'm currently running my supports as 9/0/21. Soooo much CDR. Although it's been fielded that you can go 0/0/30 for supports. Dunno.

Def tree for tanky junglers is so awesome now. That reduced damage from creeps and return 6 is insanely fast.

For runes I'm still running the standard pages, mostly because I'm poor. So MPen Red, Armor Yellow, CDR Blue for my casty supports.

[sunrise089]

Seyruun, I went your 9/21/0 WW with the cooldown masteries in the defensive tree. You take no damage. As in, you finish every camp with ~full health. So that's cool and all, but am I then overemphasizing defense?

[SleepingMoogle]

I'm considering 0/9/21 for Support right now. The added health and armor/mdef will make for a pretty sturdy character in the early levels.

[Deceptus]

Seyruun, I went your 9/21/0 WW with the cooldown masteries in the defensive tree. You take no damage. As in, you finish every camp with ~full health. So that's cool and all, but am I then overemphasizing defense?

Warwick is an obsolete jungler, to start things with. Sure, he clears camps without dying, but he's also very slow at doing that.

The new masteries only emphasize on the idea of Warwick never dying in the jungle. That's... weak, given that after the nerfs, the only things that stand out in his kit are: tower-diving for ganks, mid-lane ganks (both only unlocked at level 6, which makes him an AFK farm champion until 7-8 minute mark) and relative impossibility to die in the jungle.

Meanwhile, all the other junglers became much faster and safer, but for Warwick the new mastery tree doesn't give a lot of options to efficiently increase his speed. Skarner has a similar suppression ability, he can actually gank efficiently before level 6 and is a beastly counterjungler with a really good late game phase. Sure, he might not have the amouts of sustain in fights - you can make a bunch of arguments like that - but as a jungle pick, Skarner is Warwick 2.0.

I'm sad because Warwick was my main for a while and got me to gold last season, but now he is kind of an inferior solo top. You can jungle him, but he fell out of favor dramatically. You aren't overemphasizing defense in my opinion, the skills in the defense tree give a ton of cool goodies like CC reduction, bonus health, bonus CDR (that Warwick adores) and movement speed. I don't think there's a better choice because the Offense tree would give WW some things he honestly does not need - like Crit chance or useless Havoc. WW has always been a heal tank, and if you want him to be the scary unkillable presence, you want the tanky masteries.

[Tyrmith]

So I guess Vladamir is getting a legendary skin, does that mean they'll be buffing him so people will want to play him and spend money?

[Ndfan]

Hey, does anyone else think that fiddlesticks is a little bit overpowered? I am new here, and a fan of LoL, though I am only summoner level 22. I have owned fiddles since I was about level 5, and I play him frequently. I have recently gone on a 10-1 run playing fiddles, and in the most recent game, I was 23-1-10, with an 18 kill streak, something like 824 AP, and a quarda kill that should have been a pentakill, I killed their 5th player about 7 seconds later. Now, this is no high skill level, but it just seems that fiddles is an extremely strong jungler, if very blue dependent. I usually build straight AP with fiddles, going lucky pick, level one boots, blasting wand for rabadon's, sorc shoes, finish rabadon's, zhonya's, and then whatever the game throws at me. It has absolutely no ganking before level six and does not get much AP until rabadon's is done, but after that, it just seems like his ganking/teamfighting is very strong. Some points, in no particular order:

*His fear at level 5 lasts THREE SECONDS. I am sorry riot, but that is far too long. That is part of what makes fiddles able to go gank so well, is a great escape tool, and in combination with his ult almost guarentees a kill. Throw drain in if the opponent is tanky. This spell just seems ridiculously strong, as it puts an opponent out of commission for what can often be most or all of a teamfight.

*His silence, when away from minions, can hit the whole enemy team. I don't have a problem with this skill, in general (Oh, the kills i've gotten fron a bird going off a minion into an enemy champion) It is just another part of what makes fiddles so strong in teamfights.

*He is a great threat for dragon, soloing it as early as 5 or 6. He is also very good at draining neutral creeps, and tanking baron. Of course, all the things a jungler should do.

*With his ultimate, he can jump over a wall and do massive AOE damage for 5 seconds. The AP ratio is just .45, but it is damage per second, and if you can keep an ememy in that circle for the full duration (very possible if the opponent is caught by suprise), it does a LOT of damage. At the least, it should scatter asd confuse the enemy team, leaving the AD carries to clean up.

Many people say, "Well, fiddles is extremely squishy, and he just gets focused down right away in teamfights." That is true. If the enemy team has any idea what they are doing, fiddles will be focused if he ults right into the ememy team. How do I counter this? Simple, I build no tankiness whatsoever and buy a zhonya's. I have so much AP from, well, building nothing but AP, I can simply jump in with my ult, fear one of them, walk around a bit, and as soon as I see my health bar start to drop, pop Zhonya's and wait for my ult/my team to finish them off. He is soo good at getting in and just wreaking havoc, either causing massive damage with his ult, or scattering the ememy team so they can get picked off, one by one, and since he can jump over walls, they never see it coming.

Oh, and most importantly, his skins are AMAZING!

[Deceptus]

Hey, does anyone else think that fiddlesticks is a little bit overpowered?

He has counters that can shut him down. In essence, he is one of those junglers that get really strong and snowball, he has decent presence since early game, but he can be countered.

Now, this is no high skill level, but it just seems that fiddles is an extremely strong jungler, if very blue dependent.

He's a strong jungle pick (if your team can live with not having a tanky jungler; most junglers are tanks/off-tanks in the current meta) but as a jungler he has some issues:
*prone to counterjungling; while he stays at full health throughout the entire run, his speed is average, his minion-clearing stays fairly slow throughout the game, and he wants to gank as often as his ultimate is up. This means his creep camps are easier to take from him than from others. It's not easy to recover from this because...
*...he has issues against roamers. If caught roaming by more than one person (which can happen if the enemy places wards and has a map-aware jungler), he is dead or forced to Flash out. This also means he's not a great invader.
*starts at blue have the annoying tendency of people randomly, casually walking up to you and killing/forcing you out; this also makes you a bit predictable overall because while you can gank at any level before 6, you are rather stuck on 1-2 paths;

I usually build straight AP with fiddles, going lucky pick, level one boots, blasting wand for rabadon's, sorc shoes, finish rabadon's, zhonya's, and then whatever the game throws at me.

Right, that is correct in most cases.

It has absolutely no ganking before level six and does not get much AP until rabadon's is done

You might want to reconsider that because while it's not always optimal Fiddlesticks can pressure lanes very easily with his fear, silence, and drain.

but after that, it just seems like his ganking/teamfighting is very strong. Some points, in no particular order:

*His fear at level 5 lasts THREE SECONDS. I am sorry riot, but that is far too long. That is part of what makes fiddles able to go gank so well, is a great escape tool, and in combination with his ult almost guarentees a kill. Throw drain in if the opponent is tanky. This spell just seems ridiculously strong, as it puts an opponent out of commission for what can often be most or all of a teamfight.

Mercury Treads, Quicksilver Sash and Cleanse are all viable counters. It's also a single-target CC spell that does no damage; having such a thing in your kit makes you weaker in comparison with other dedicated burst mages (not saying Fiddlesticks doesn't deal damage, oh no). A lot of the time once you've bursted in with your ultimate and are gunning for their MVP with your fear he will have a way to just walk out. Most people however don't itemize for it. It is undeniably strong, however, and gives Fiddlesticks a lot of control in fights.

*His silence, when away from minions, can hit the whole enemy team. I don't have a problem with this skill, in general (Oh, the kills i've gotten fron a bird going off a minion into an enemy champion) It is just another part of what makes fiddles so strong in teamfights.

It's not however the most reliable CC given the slow projectile; people often just scatter from each other to avoid it; Fiddlesticks once again has a skill that makes him a great CC bot but it also makes him fall off late game, because, to be fair, Dark Wind isn't a great damage source. It is a good skill, however - the silence is particularly useful against their AP carries.

*He is a great threat for dragon, soloing it as early as 5 or 6. He is also very good at draining neutral creeps, and tanking baron. Of course, all the things a jungler should do.

While soloing the dragon early is strong, you need to make sure it isn't warded, while possibly having a superior bottom/mid lane that is outpushing the opponent; in the end you aren't going to pull that off as often as you'd like - it takes a long time to kill it this early - but it is definitely an option. Adds to his versatility, but it isn't a guarantee.

*With his ultimate, he can jump over a wall and do massive AOE damage for 5 seconds. The AP ratio is just .45, but it is damage per second, and if you can keep an ememy in that circle for the full duration (very possible if the opponent is caught by suprise), it does a LOT of damage. At the least, it should scatter asd confuse the enemy team, leaving the AD carries to clean up.

It's a very strong ultimate, but, once again, it has counters - such as Janna or Gragas ultimates. First picking Fiddlesticks in a ranked game can doom you if the enemy decides that they like a Janna in their team. Fiddlesticks can also have his ultimate baited out of him. It's yet another pubstomping ability - because it often forces you to ward in weird places - but a lot of the time you can just make it much more troublesome for Fiddle to get in and deal damage.

Many people say, "Well, fiddles is extremely squishy, and he just gets focused down right away in teamfights." That is true. If the enemy team has any idea what they are doing, fiddles will be focused if he ults right into the ememy team. How do I counter this? Simple, I build no tankiness whatsoever and buy a zhonya's. I have so much AP from, well, building nothing but AP, I can simply jump in with my ult, fear one of them, walk around a bit, and as soon as I see my health bar start to drop, pop Zhonya's and wait for my ult/my team to finish them off. He is soo good at getting in and just wreaking havoc, either causing massive damage with his ult, or scattering the ememy team so they can get picked off, one by one, and since he can jump over walls, they never see it coming.

Fiddlesticks also isn't an easy champion to use. Surely, his abilities can be devastating - if timed right, and on Fiddlesticks making the correct decision is pretty much the entire difficulty with playing him. His skillset makes his teamfighting fairly reliant on Crowstorm that has a long cooldown; if he locks himself in the Zhonya stasis without having the crows swirling around him then he doesn't do anything except wait for his next cooldown for the next Drain, after all; but then he can get Ignited and his ability to tank nerfed completely. I've seen times where Fiddlesticks ultimate would be baited out of him and then the enemy team would force a fight. In the end, he is a champion that requires good decision-making and positioning to really work at higher levels. He definitely is a strong character, worthy of mastering: not many people can play him at a devastating level as people get smarter.