Chairmen NobleHelium and Gaspar Demand Your Presence in the Collective

[oledavy]

Hey, If you'll have me, I'll ded-lurk you Gaspar. I've enjoyed all your games to date and would love to see you pull out a win here against such stiff competition. I'm not well-versed in C&D, but if no one else appears I'd be willing to give it a crack.

[Gaspar]

Love to have you Dave. Even more so if you're willing to C&D, but the more the merrier.

[Gaspar]

So, time for the always timeless opponent analysis. We'll start with the BMOC - Novice and SevenSpirits:



Buncha bullies, I tell ya.

They're featuring as:



Suleiman (PHI/IMP) of Korea (Hwacha, Seowon, Mining, Mysticism)

Starting with the pick first - Suleiman of Korea is maybe the most interesting choice on the board. Obviously Phi favors (demands, really) a Specialist Economy. Cheap Seowons come later than you'd like your cheap building, but it is a nice cheap building and I have no doubt they'll get there quicker than we'd like. Hwachas are also strong units, and they have the longest shelflife outside of Fast Workers and maybe War Chariots. Imp is the "indie" trait and its situationally useful. Given what we know about the map (prince, toroid, all on same landmass, relevant water) I don't think whipping a boatload of settlers is probably a reasonable strategy. But whatever the case, its not a terrible trait. Increased GG generation is pretty decent as a backup bonus as well.

I listed their personal stats above, but neither Seven nor novice has ever lost a game here. novice might still lose 17, but he has certainly given a magnificent showing regardless of how it turns out (Good luck, Dave!) novice is the conventional wisdom of the pair - one of the only people who can really talk Seven out of anything. He's magnificent at micro-plans and getting wonders chopped. Seven is the big picture guy though he's also a micro whiz. He came up with the unique early Astro plan which was brilliant in PBEM19 and replicated it in PBEM23 where it is still strong but less of a win button. Anyway, they're amazing players. What's their weakness? I honestly don't know that they have one. novice isn't much of a military tactician, but Seven fills that role admirably. Seven is prone to harebrained schemes, novice can keep him grounded. Really, the best hope is that they bite off more than they can chew. Seven's never really played against a field of all strong players, which this game should be. novice has had that experience in PBEM17. No diplo helps them as well, as there will be no dogpile. They are the clear favorites, and would be really against any opponent, excepting maybe Krill.

(All ratings out 5, more is always better. Leader/civ ratings are relative to the 4 pairings in the game only)

no7 snapshot:

Player skill:
Leader/Civ strength:
Aggressiveness:
"It" factor: *pimp**pimp**pimp**pimp**pimp*

Exploitable weakness: Possible grudge being carried by mackoti.
Biggest fear: They're our first contact, they get out to an early lead.
Pre-game prediction: Winners.

NH, Mardoc, Dave - anything I'm missing?

[oledavy]

Agreed on all counts. Given that they're philosophical, and Novice and Seven's propensity to run strong specialist economies, I expect to see them do it again here and dovetail it into a massive workshop spam for the late game. I think their biggest weakness may be on the military side of things, and even that's not saying much. Seven is the veteran of the two, but both are competent militarily. However, it's more in a 'by the book' manner. Watching PBEM19 & PBEM23, I don't feel like either posesses any sort of tactical flair - just a dogmatic approach to fighting. I think we could feasibly outgeneral them if the situation arose, but hopefully Mackoti will do that for us.

PBEM23 Spoilers

We may get a repeat of PBEM23 where they delay crucial military techs until it almost kills them - they like running the farmer's gambit to the max. They didn't exhibit great metagaming skills in PBEM23 with Mackoti either, and that could be another area where we get them. Mackoti holds grudge against them for that game, and also resents Seven for giving us the ivory start in PBEM25v, so we may be able to exploit that as well.

FWIW, in my conversations with Mack, Seven is the only player he's actually afraid of. Mainly because they play in similar styles and Seven is such a god of micro. They're definitely the team to beat, but I firmly believe it's doable.

[Gaspar]

Next up, don't be fooled by the wins that he's got - he's still mackoti from the block.





He's featuring as the New Dealer himself:



FDR(IND/ORG) of Sumeria (Vulture, Ziggurat, The Wheel, Agriculture)

Perhaps the most annoying part of this swap (originally Commodore gave them Arabia) is they traded Mysticism for Agriculture, so mackoti is even with us for best start techs while having easily the strongest trait set. IND/ORG basically screams GLH as nobody else can get there faster. Given mackoti's proclivity for building wonders - and the Pyramids in particular - we can expect him to be hoarding them left, right and center here. Between him and no7, we'll have to work hard if we want to land anything. Anyway, ORG is a stronger trait on a map with decent amounts of water (when Lighthouses become more common builds) and on a Toroidal map script, which this is. Ziggurats are meh, you don't usually want Courthouses before CoL and often I research CoL before Priesthood. Given of course that Oracle -> Metal Casting makes sense for an IND leader anyway, we can expect to see cheap Ziggurats in play for mackoti lickety-split. The only real negative is no early growth trait.

mackoti is an exceptional player when he keeps his cool. He's been whipping me pillar-to-post in PBEM24 and that embarrassment is part of what drove me to join this game. I like the guy though, don't get me wrong, I don't bear a grudge. He's an excellent player if a bit of a one-trick pony. He typically struggles more in games where he doesn't land the Pyramids, though he did win PBEM18 without them. He is prone to grudging and fits of anger - PB4 and to a lesser extent PBEM23 both being examples of this play. Minor chinks in the armor comparatively, but he's not flawless.

mackoti snapshot:

Player skill:
Leader/Civ Strength:
Aggressiveness:
"It" factor: *pimp**pimp**pimp*

Exploitable weakness: Possible grudge against no7, short temper.
Biggest fear: Wonderwhores, gets out a strong military.
Pre-game prediction: 2nd of 4.

[Gaspar]

Last but not least - you know he, same old G' - Lewwyn:



(Couldn't resist the opportunity to use his hip-hop persona from Diplo1 against him)

Featuring as:



Justinian (SPI/IMP) of Persia (Immortal, Apothecary, Agriculture, Hunting)

Justinian is definitely an improvement on Brennus, who originally featured. I don't rate Charismatic much as a trait personally. Imperialistic is no great shakes either, but it contributes more to a quick start. Spiritual is obviously an excellent trait but a big part of the genius of Spiritual is how it lets you really power out the GPs with Caste without losing the whip - that's going to be tougher for Lewwyn to leverage with mackoti and/or no7 far more likely to bang out the mids. Agriculture/Hunting is meh - Hunting is a crappy start trait because it is less beakers, but Agriculture is obviously nice. Immortals are meh but they are essentially a direct counter to our Bowmen and Apothecary is a lousy replacement for a mediocre building.

Lewwyn is an underrated player - he's always competitive (well save for PBEM14) and his biggest weakness (IMO) in diplo is not a part of this game. He's still likely to chum up to the first person he meets, but that's not going to factor as much in a CTON. He's got a strong aggressive streak - it is not just a persona - he really will think of war as a solution to most problems. That said he's a competent general and is strong at micro when he stays focused. Focus is always the key for Lewwyn, he's prone to losing it and probably drops 3 or 4 grades as a player when he does so. If he maintains it he's good enough to win this game. Lewwyn's biggest weakness is a tendency to make rash decisions, but that can work against us as easily as it can work for us. He's someone a LOT harder to manage without being able to use real diplomacy. Still, he's smart enough to know there are more important targets than us in this game.

Lewwyn snapshot:

Player skill:
Leader/Civ Strength:
Aggressiveness:
"It" factor: *pimp**pimp*

Exploitable weakness: Possible loss of focus, overreactions.
Biggest fear: Rolls up on us with a pair of chariots before we have military out.
Pre-game prediction: 4th of 4. (Hey, can't pick us for last)

[Mardoc]

Generally agree with all your assessments. The only thing I'd add - novice and Seven seem to typically run Farmer's Gambit closer to the edge than anyone else. They seem to have a sixth sense for when to build and flash military, and just enough to keep you deterred. But they tend to trust that they can outbuild you, and come back later to crush you with superior numbers and tech. I don't see them planning an offensive war until they're ahead. To that end, I think Lewwyn might be their Kryptonite, if he rolls up on *them* with a pair of chariots.

The trouble is - I don't see us benefitting from taking that spoiling role. We probably can't actually kill them and take their lands in an ancient war, they're good enough tacticians to prevent that. But we can certainly ensure that mackoti is the winner. Again. My instinct says we want to emulate No7 and run a farmer's gambit as well, building just enough military that mackoti and Lewwyn go after No7 instead of us. Reputation might help us there.

So...a coupla spears this time? :neenernee

[NobleHelium]

Yes, I emphasized the "we need a couple of spears because immortals directly counter bowmen" part. Should be fine, need Hunting for Archery anyway.

P.S. you should give ratings for us also.

[NobleHelium]

Random Personalities is on...so do we roll a die whenever we're presented with a trade offer?

[Gaspar]

Quick screenshot after moves but before end turn. Just triple checking the tech choice then we'll properly report.