This Time for Sure: Mardoc reprises the Lanun

[Mardoc]

Thoth,

There's a good chance I will be travelling for work sometime in the next couple of weeks. Can you cover me for 16 and 18? It would be just for a day or two; unfortunately I don't know the date because the other people involved are waffling.

I would, of course, leave a detailed plan that you can rip to shreds and point at, laughing . [SIZE="1"]pay no attention to the fact that I should be doing that anyway, regularly[/SIZE]



On a different note - what buildings should we plan on cash rushing, where? It's tempting to rush Lighthouses and Sea Havens in the new cities, only then I'm not sure what to build while they grow up . Maybe just rush the lighthouses? I do want them to grow fast and be solid contributors quickly, so the extra food would be welcome. With the exception of city3 and its Heron Throne, which means not many sea tiles being worked until after it's built.

[Thoth]

Agreed. Once all our land cities have intercontinental routes, islands become less urgent, but until then - they're worth 17 commerce in trade route and city tile alone, from turn 1. Mostly the only change to the plan is going to be settling copper #2 in our short-term plan instead of the previous 'one of these days' plan. But all in all, I do still want another dozen cities, pronto .

Agreed. Our 4th and 5th Island cities are a priority, but they're less valuable than 1-->3 as they only produce extra trade routes in our coastal cities. They're still well worth building, but I think Copper, Incense and Pearl cities are higher priority.

I don't know if that's fair to the other players. Surely everyone deserves a chance at Command Posts, not just us and Tatan?



I like it! Going to have to watch the log like a hawk, but we've the GDP advantage, we should use it if we can. And a GA would be an excellent thing right now, we're working nearly 80 tiles, almost every one of which would benefit.

Note also that our tech path would include Philo and we'll have Marble connected. Mainmast could knock out the Bone Palace very quickly in a GA (even without GK hammers).

Thoth,

There's a good chance I will be travelling for work sometime in the next couple of weeks. Can you cover me for 16 and 18? It would be just for a day or two; unfortunately I don't know the date because the other people involved are waffling.

I would, of course, leave a detailed plan that you can rip to shreds and point at, laughing . [SIZE="1"]pay no attention to the fact that I should be doing that anyway, regularly[/SIZE]

NP covering the turns.

Detailed plans = good.

On a different note - what buildings should we plan on cash rushing, where? It's tempting to rush Lighthouses and Sea Havens in the new cities, only then I'm not sure what to build while they grow up . Maybe just rush the lighthouses? I do want them to grow fast and be solid contributors quickly, so the extra food would be welcome. With the exception of city3 and its Heron Throne, which means not many sea tiles being worked until after it's built.

We won't be cash rushing much with our present income.

Lighthouses are a weak choice to cash rush as we're getting doubled hammers on them from Org anyway but we'd still be paying the full 3g/hammer cash rushing cost.

Our first 3 planned Island cities all have at least one Food special + multiple coves so growth won't be too much of a problem. Even without Lighthouses, sea tiles are food neutral for us.

I'd like to rush the OO temple in Poopdeck (ideally the turn we finish Warfare so that the overflow goes into the NE (and gets doubled with Marble). Other than that, upgrading our three experienced Warriors to Swordsmen is appealing, plus maybe a fishing boat or two in our new cities to get their coves up and running while our home cities pump out Settlers (coast cities) and military (inland cities).

Once Iron Working is in, spending some coin to rush out Naval Yards in low production coastal cities is an excellent use of gold.

[Thoth]

BTW: We're now somewhere around 180 BPT at 70% tech.

Any bets on what turn we pass 200 BPT? (at our current slider setting...)

[Mardoc]

BTW: We're now somewhere around 180 BPT at 70% tech.

Any bets on what turn we pass 200 BPT? (at our current slider setting...)

I think we will certainly manage it when the new city is founded. So - two turns?

This is just amazing:

Looks slightly less impressive at EOT, after archery is in and our double prereq is gone:


And...this is just sad:


In other news, our invasion of the marble furs has begun, although we lost a worker turn due to the river south of Mainmast slowing the settler's southward progress a tad (and hence the galley having to backtrack). City will be founded in 2 turns; meanwhile the galley will probably scout a smidgen then return home for the next load of intrepid settlers.

And, now that archery is in, all Lanunish workers need to learn a new song

[Mardoc]

Well, we now have both a 15 XP and a 16 XP warrior. They'll upgrade to swords, and hopefully find something to kill to put us into Titan range.

Someone built the Great Library? Seems like a bit early to be sinking so many hammers into libraries, to me, but what do I know?



And, with Archery in, plus workers off to the island paradises, I'm feeling a bit light on workers again. Although I suppose 'finished' on islands ought to happen a lot sooner. In fact, here's what I'm thinking for the two islands we're settling that we know about:



Basically, max hammers, cottages where we can't put hammer stuff. Part of the debate is lumbermills or mines for the hill forests - I've tentatively got them down for mines, on the theory of popping resources eventually (and getting the chop hammers), but I could see the argument for mills for health instead. I think it's the same hammers either way, and either same or almost same worker-turns.

In any event, we'll 1T Masonry so we can start building the quarry, then head toward our Golden Age #1. With, yes, a goal of soon adding a marble throne and palace to our collection, amongst the city spam and workers.

[Thoth]

Well, we now have both a 15 XP and a 16 XP warrior. They'll upgrade to swords, and hopefully find something to kill to put us into Titan range.

Also...remember that Swords can upgrade to Chariots once we have construction (and a Siege Workshop.....not sure where we can fit one of those in, at least in the short run. Still, something to remember) . And we'll keep bronze on any units that currently have it.

Someone built the Great Library? Seems like a bit early to be sinking so many hammers into libraries, to me, but what do I know?

F9 Top Cities suggests that it was Illios. And I'm agreed that it seems like a lot of hammers to spend at this point in the game given the ROI.

Basically, max hammers, cottages where we can't put hammer stuff. Part of the debate is lumbermills or mines for the hill forests - I've tentatively got them down for mines, on the theory of popping resources eventually (and getting the chop hammers), but I could see the argument for mills for health instead. I think it's the same hammers either way, and either same or almost same worker-turns.

I'd go for the mines on the Islands rather than the mills. We'll get the same number of hammers/turn + the 1 time 13 hammer boost.

I'd skip improving any non-hill, non resource tile though. Lighthoused/Seahavened coast blows the doors off anything we can do with a flatland tile at the moment and don't require any worker turns. (just some hammers from the city).

Milling the flatland Forested tiles has merit, but it can wait a bit until we have some worker turns to spare.

In any event, we'll 1T Masonry so we can start building the quarry, then head toward our Golden Age #1. With, yes, a goal of soon adding a marble throne and palace to our collection, amongst the city spam and workers.

Plus a road and camp on the Furs.

[Thoth]

Also, I've re-read the setup thread and I've been doing some thinking.

According to the setup thread we're on a Torroidal map. Which means distance maintenance costs are going to be an absolute beast. Even with Org Courthouses we may very well be better off sticking with City States instead of Republic.

(I haven't run the math, but 80% distance maint cost reduction + 40% num cities maint reduction will probably outweigh the +1c/+1h from Rep given the number of cities we're planning)

[Mardoc]

I'd go for the mines on the Islands rather than the mills. We'll get the same number of hammers/turn + the 1 time 13 hammer boost.

Fair enough. We ought to soon have even more healthiness resources, and they'll have Sea Havens to double all the seafood.

I'd skip improving any non-hill, non resource tile though. Lighthoused/Seahavened coast blows the doors off anything we can do with a flatland tile at the moment and don't require any worker turns. (just some hammers from the city)

Milling the flatland Forested tiles has merit, but it can wait a bit until we have some worker turns to spare.

Ok, I can see that. We'll want to do it eventually, but you're right that it will be a while yet. And when we're working a dozen lighthouse tiles is a great time to knock out a quick worker to finish the island then get ferried away.

Plus a road and camp on the Furs.

The furs have a river that should connect them. I don't know that we'll do enough walking on that tile to be worth a road, therefore.

Unless I'm wrong about how the river works.

Also, I've re-read the setup thread and I've been doing some thinking.

According to the setup thread we're on a Torroidal map. Which means distance maintenance costs are going to be an absolute beast. Even with Org Courthouses we may very well be better off sticking with City States instead of Republic.

(I haven't run the math, but 80% distance maint cost reduction + 40% num cities maint reduction will probably outweigh the +1c/+1h from Rep given the number of cities we're planning)

It'll be a debate. Costs are certainly already starting to bite, but we'll have an awful lot of cottages, too. And, by the time we get to Republic as an option, we may want the hammers more than the cash, anyway, to build a super-army with.

[Thoth]

Fair enough. We ought to soon have even more healthiness resources, and they'll have Sea Havens to double all the seafood.

Yeah, health will bottleneck us eventually, but hammers are what we want right now.

Ok, I can see that. We'll want to do it eventually, but you're right that it will be a while yet. And when we're working a dozen lighthouse tiles is a great time to knock out a quick worker to finish the island then get ferried away.

Now you start to see it

The furs have a river that should connect them. I don't know that we'll do enough walking on that tile to be worth a road, therefore.

Worker plan for those tiles is: Road both (the Marble road completes a turn before the Fur road). Then start Quarrying the Marble (1 worker). Both workers quarry marble (2 t) then move to Furs (with no penalty thanks to road) and start the Camp (2 t with 2 workers).

Then they get onna boat and start on another city.

Unless I'm wrong about how the river works.



It'll be a debate. Costs are certainly already starting to bite, but we'll have an awful lot of cottages, too. And, by the time we get to Republic as an option, we may want the hammers more than the cash, anyway, to build a super-army with.

Not 100% sure atm, but Rep isn't a slam dunk (yet).

We'll want some serious Org Courthouse action plus probably Overcouncil for the swap to be worthwhile. Which is doable, but thinking about options ahead of time is always a good thing.

[Mardoc]

And our first overseas town is established. Man, Foreign Trade is awesome! That's a town, far from our capital, size one, toroidal map - already almost paying its maintenance with a mere 30% of its income. Better than that if you count its effect on the mainland cities. This town hasn't done anything yet except exist, and it's a huge plus to our GNP!



That came with a boosted trade route for each and every mainland city, of course . And we've broken 200 bpt.

I'm to the point where I'm very glad we're Parkinizing our tech, the demos look bad enough without throwing a 20% boost onto everything we do.