This Time for Sure: Mardoc reprises the Lanun

[Thoth]

State of the Empire part two

Finances:

Civics:

Swapping to City States will save us roughly 44gpt (including the 11% inflation rate). Mil state will only save us 3gpt at the moment, but it means we can field another 16 units without support....and we'll gain +15% to our production while building them and can emergency Draft up to 4 units per turn if needed.

Assuming we stay at 80% tech (we should drop to 70% this turn if we can still bag Currency next turn at that rate, I'd really like to keep our cash reserves above 75 for either the GE or the Orb events), Consumption will be worth 20 gp.

IOW, while we are GAgeing it...we'll be making better than 400BPT and ~65 gpt.

Mardoc, we don't need any more cottages. Our commerce needs are amply filled with our current crop + future growth into water tiles/coves in our coastal cities. What we need are farms and Workshops (we'll have Smelting in about 5 turns....which is about when we'll finish our first workshops).


With the loss of the FotT, we'll need either Theocracy (which gives us +1 happy for State religion in addition to the +2 exp) or Apprenticeship (no free military support, no drafting, no cash rushing) in order to build level 4 units.

Screw Republic, let's become a Theocratic Military State.

[Mardoc]

Finally have a chance to dig back into this. Thanks for the substitution, Thoth! And, of course, for the detailed thoughts that'll make my play stronger going forward.

Mainmast:

4 turns to go on the Bone Palace. We can keep to that eta if we do the swap in 3 turns (I think). Follow up with a Market, Inn and a Library. Our #1 Commerce and current #1 producer. Top city in the world.

You mean Library, then Market, then Inn, right? Seeing as that Library is worth something like 20 bpt, while the others are much smaller contributions...

Yes, I agree, we want out of God King as soon as we're sure the swap won't cost us the Bone Palace.

Poopdeck:

Needs to have the PT cash rushed this turn, and another Priest hired next turn. With Sanitation and a farm on the plains (and another farm once the damned tundra goes away) we should be able to support 6 specialists here at size 17 (we'll need a Granary and Smokehouse after the two Zealots in order to grow quickly and maintain our health cap.

Makes sense.

Mizzenmast:
Currently unhappy but that unhappy person is giving us +5 commerce from boosted trade routes (the equivalent of a riverside Town). The Lumbermill will complete this turn and should be worked instead of the plains Mana. That gets us a settler in 4t. The Galley should head off exploring....SE I think.

I'm thinking I want some more island sites scouted as a first priority. Circumnavigation is nice and all, as is knowing our neighbors, but not compared to getting down a couple more trade route doublers.

Plus the islands seem to be a treasure trove of cool resources. If we can monopolize them, we've a reason for people to open borders with us rather than shun us, don't you think?

Topsail:

Currently pushing out another settler. We want to grow it to size 15 before starting another settler (possibly worker before settler). One tile left to improve with a workshop. We'll want a Market here after the Galley so that citizen 15 can do something useful (hire him as a Merchant) besides getting us another 5 commerce from trade routes.

Logical.

Tiller:

Coming along nicely. This city will be a hammer monster once it grows into the (yet to be built Workshops). Once it finishes up 2x Galley, Worker,Market, Settler it's a fine candidate for an Command Post and Archery Range. It will be able to 1t Archers to provide stout garrison units for all our cities.

Now we're talking! And on reflection - if we are adding 4 Galleys, total, in the next couple turns, maybe I'm ok with sending Mizzen's southeast after all. One northish from here, one southeast from Mizzen, leaves three to explore the islands, ferry, and attempt a direct crossing.

You sure we want stout garrison units, and not, say, Hawk/Floating Eye coverage with a couple quick response forces? Quick response forces that could also quickly respond to, say, a weakly defended neighbor ? Bear in mind, anyone who gets to us has already either beaten our navy, or killed a Hill Giant in citadel, so archers won't be all that much more effective.

Bilge:

Currently finishing up a settler. After that....Swordsman/Market/worker/command post, Swordsmen. It'll never be a great city, but it'll give us a steady supply of grunts. Needs a border pop, a couple of Mills, a farm and a pair of Workshops.

I guess this comes back to the question of what our military will be. You're thinking swordsmen, maybe upgraded to Boarding Parties? That's pretty decent for a naval/marine force, but I don't like it at all for anything land-based; I'd much rather something like mages/horse archers.


Winch:

Another ok, but not great city. Just finished up a Training Yard (we'll want to upgrade the experienced warrior in a turn or two). Needs a lumbermill, border pop, a couple of farms and a Camp. Decent unit/worker/settler pump.

Hold:

Soon to be home of the Heroic Epic, this will be a monster unit pump. Command Post next, then a few Horsemen....then Shrine of the Champion.

Me likey.

Jib Boom:

Just finished up a WB for it's first Cove. With two Coves + Crabs it'll grow respectably while building Lighthouse, then either a Sea Haven or Naval Yard depending on timing of builds vs tech. Very good commerce/hammer site. Will be one of our premiere Naval producers.

Yep. Will be a pretty strong worker/settler pump, as well, I think.

Ballast (aka City 3)

Chugging away on the Heron Throne. Eta is t101/102. If we can bag the Wonder then this will be a monster kick-ass city. Oodles of commerce and hammers. Possible candidate for the Tower of Complacency (we should be able to get this sucker up to around size 26-28 depending on Health)

...you mean, tons of 3/2/3 tiles, except when they're coves or fish or mines? Yeah, I think I agree that's a monster . Fingers crossed that no one else is bothering with the Throne.

Keel:

Our newest city. Currently producing Workboats to net all it's resources and establish a pair of Coves. It'll need a worker (possibly self produced) to improve the Sheep. First priority here is netting the Whales for mainland happies, followed by Fish, Clams and Coves.

Yep, sounds right.

Mardoc, we don't need any more cottages. Our commerce needs are amply filled with our current crop + future growth into water tiles/coves in our coastal cities. What we need are farms and Workshops (we'll have Smelting in about 5 turns....which is about when we'll finish our first workshops).

With the loss of the FotT, we'll need either Theocracy (which gives us +1 happy for State religion in addition to the +2 exp) or Apprenticeship (no free military support, no drafting, no cash rushing) in order to build level 4 units.

Screw Republic, let's become a Theocratic Military State.

On reflection, I think I agree. We're going to want so many island and coastal cities, all working all their tiles (3/1/3 after infra), that losing a bit of cottage commerce is ok. Honestly, we still want *all* the islands for ourselves, or at least all that we can conceivably lay claim to.

And insta-mages solve so many military/scouting/etc problems that we really *need* them.

Still, is there a rush? Not much point in going to Theocracy until we have at least a few Command Posts built, and ideally also Sorcery...maybe an opponent sighted and our peaceful expansion slowed by said opponent..

OTOH - this puts GLighthouse back on the table, doesn't it? When Foreign Trade goes away, our coastal cities will be down to 4 trade routes each, more or less. Not soon, there's too many other places to dump our hammers, but maybe once Ballast is approaching monster status?

[Thoth]

Finally have a chance to dig back into this. Thanks for the substitution, Thoth! And, of course, for the detailed thoughts that'll make my play stronger going forward.

NP mate. It was fun. :hat:

You mean Library, then Market, then Inn, right? Seeing as that Library is worth something like 20 bpt, while the others are much smaller contributions...

Actually....Market/Inn/Library. Market and Inn are mainly for the Happies (they're worth +1 each). Their other effects are just a nice bonus.

Lib is a bit less than 20 BTP I think....but still worth building.

Yes, I agree, we want out of God King as soon as we're sure the swap won't cost us the Bone Palace.

Yeah, gotta crank the numbers next turn (and then triple check them, we *really* want the BP)

I'm thinking I want some more island sites scouted as a first priority. Circumnavigation is nice and all, as is knowing our neighbors, but not compared to getting down a couple more trade route doublers.

Plus the islands seem to be a treasure trove of cool resources. If we can monopolize them, we've a reason for people to open borders with us rather than shun us, don't you think?

Agreed on wanting to scout the Islands. We're still short Wheat (we really want this one), Bananas, Silks (there's some Elephants to the East we can grab with a solid city site)....and maybe Iron.

OB is probably a pipe dream given the demographics and not necessarily in our best interests. We have bigger cities than anyone else (and more of them) so OB favours our opponents more than it does us.

Now we're talking! And on reflection - if we are adding 4 Galleys, total, in the next couple turns, maybe I'm ok with sending Mizzen's southeast after all. One northish from here, one southeast from Mizzen, leaves three to explore the islands, ferry, and attempt a direct crossing.

We'll want one for sure to stay home as a ferry, the others are for exploration. I think we want to stick to the Island areas as much as possible to delay contact for a bit. We'll have it sooner or later, but I'd like as many war toys on the board as possible when it does happen.

You sure we want stout garrison units, and not, say, Hawk/Floating Eye coverage with a couple quick response forces? Quick response forces that could also quickly respond to, say, a weakly defended neighbor ? Bear in mind, anyone who gets to us has already either beaten our navy, or killed a Hill Giant in citadel, so archers won't be all that much more effective.

Both actually. Quick response forces for attacking, stout defenders to cover them. Hill Giants will fall easily to a few PZs (and the Citadels provide no bonus to the Hill Giants....fortifications must be within your own cultural borders in order to provide any effect). Current PG suggests we aren't in immanent danger, but I'd like to be fielding a proper military sooner rather than later.

I guess this comes back to the question of what our military will be. You're thinking swordsmen, maybe upgraded to Boarding Parties? That's pretty decent for a naval/marine force, but I don't like it at all for anything land-based; I'd much rather something like mages/horse archers.

Iron Swords are extremely hammer efficient, BPs are nice we'll want some, Horse Archers got hit too hard with the nerf stick. They aren't worth the beakers/hammers compared to Chariots (esp Iron Chariots).

Mages? Yeah I'd like some of them.

...you mean, tons of 3/2/3 tiles, except when they're coves or fish or mines? Yeah, I think I agree that's a monster . Fingers crossed that no one else is bothering with the Throne.

Yeah, gotta run some numbers, but we may want to cash rush this sucker once the second chop has been applied (if we can afford it).

On reflection, I think I agree. We're going to want so many island and coastal cities, all working all their tiles (3/1/3 after infra), that losing a bit of cottage commerce is ok. Honestly, we still want *all* the islands for ourselves, or at least all that we can conceivably lay claim to.

Rep makes sense for a land based empire....but we're the freaking Lanun. We have the best sea tiles in the game and lots of Islands to exploit. A quickie eyeball suggests that within 10 turns we're going to be pumping out ~400 bpt at 70% tech (plus a bunch o gold). That's plenty.

And insta-mages solve so many military/scouting/etc problems that we really *need* them.

Yep. And we can have them soon.

Still, is there a rush? Not much point in going to Theocracy until we have at least a few Command Posts built, and ideally also Sorcery...maybe an opponent sighted and our peaceful expansion slowed by said opponent..

Disagree strongly. Theo + Conquest = two promo units in any city with State Religion. Add Command Post for triple promoted units. Which be very nice no matter what they are.

OTOH - this puts GLighthouse back on the table, doesn't it? When Foreign Trade goes away, our coastal cities will be down to 4 trade routes each, more or less. Not soon, there's too many other places to dump our hammers, but maybe once Ballast is approaching monster status?

Maybe....but I still don't think the benefit is worth the cost. At least not until we have a lot more war toys on the board.

[Mardoc]

Chariots! I knew I was forgetting something important.

And we already have all the tech we need for them, too, as a part of our normal econ plan. Ok, chariot-mages by land, galleon-mage-boarding party by sea, that seems quite a reasonable approach. With mixed in anything and everything.

[Thoth]

Chariots! I knew I was forgetting something important.

And we already have all the tech we need for them, too, as a part of our normal econ plan. Ok, chariot-mages by land, galleon-mage-boarding party by sea, that seems quite a reasonable approach. With mixed in anything and everything.

Not quite all the tech....we still need Construction (due at eot 97 )

That Stables I suggested in Hold aren't looking quite so good anymore. I think we still spit out 6-8 Horsemen to tide us over, once the Command Post gets rushed, but I don't see us teching to Stirrups in order to build over priced HAs when we can just build Chariots (with a Siege WS) instead.

[Thoth]

OH! and something else to remember: Swords can upgrade to Chariots....and we have some well promoted Swords.

[Mardoc]

That Stables I suggested in Hold aren't looking quite so good anymore. I think we still spit out 6-8 Horsemen to tide us over, once the Command Post gets rushed, but I don't see us teching to Stirrups in order to build over priced HAs when we can just build Chariots (with a Siege WS) instead.

It's still good for a trade route, at least.

[Thoth]

It's still good for a trade route, at least.

Eh? Stables now give a TR?

[Mardoc]

Eh? Stables now give a TR?

Yep. Y'know, cause Hippus needed another boost .


T97: Played with help from Thoth. We've now got scouting news again!





And Thoth proposed this little city as our next goal on the mainland; isn't it a beauty? Spending four workers in constant work to road and then improve it, but we'll be happier with copper again.


Finally, at EOT with border pops, a little more info. Keel? I think you're gonna have to share that island with another city

[Mardoc]

Played T98, all by myself this time . I don't think I made any mistakes, the general principles seem clear.

In foreign news, Ilios built the Tablets of Bambur. Nothing else in the log. So...with Bone Palace due at the end of next turn, we've only got one turn remaining for someone to try a steal. Fingers crossed!

Workers worked on getting our 2nd copper ASAP, via settlement, rushed a workboat in the island city about to grow (Jib Boom, I think), set all the other workers to workshops or lumbermills, except those bringing Incense to market, who worked on a road. Rearranged cities a bit once the whales were connected, so that they're all working improved tiles again.

Another turn, another tech . Set research to Carto, will follow up with Sanitation next turn:


Set the galleys exploring, looking for more islands...hello, look what we have here!


To put this in context:


So. Hi, Buddy! I went ahead and moved the Galley NE, back out of sight. Well, maybe out of sight - as you'll see later, he's got KotE, and thus a chance of a Floating Eye.

What's to know about buddy Tatan?
Cities:


Oooh, we're more than double him.

Graphs:

You can see, as expected, that he's well behind. Except in Power, interestingly enough, where he's only a little behind.

What could that Power be?
Trade screen:

Bowyers? So...firebows? I'm not going to spend much time next to this coastline!

OTOH - he's got KoTE and Bowyers on us. On him, we've got...

Animal Husbandry!
Horseback Riding
Trade
Fishing
Sailing
Bronze Working
Hunting
Masonry
Construction
Writing
Warfare
Military Strategy
Philosophy
Code of Laws
Currency
Message from the Deep

Somehow, I don't think there will be *many* Firebows from Friend Tatan . Nor will they be assaulting us amphibiously . It does mean that he's prickly enough that we probably shouldn't be planning to invade him, at least not quite yet. We've got plenty of peaceful expansion sites to grab first, anyway.

His Civics:

Finally, we discovered an annoying oceanic barrier in the south.



Plans for the future? Pretty much keep on keeping on. Once the Epics and wonders finish up, we ought to have room for more than three settlers in queue at once. Which is good, we still have lots to grow to. Techwise, we're going Carto, Sanitation, Smelting, Iron Working, then...probably grab the mana techs and Sorcery? Although we might want to go Mind Stapling and Priesthood first, to get full use out of OO. Or maybe Taxation, to make all our villages and towns extra nice. Or...there's still a lot of choices out there, even at 1/turn .