First, there was a mapmaker...

[Mist]

and he was evil

[Mist]

Is there anybody out there who's not playing/lurking this game?

No?

Shame. Nevertheless, in case some there's still a lost soul out there than can make a comment - a WB save of an early draft and starting areas screenshot.

HidingKneel



Selrahc



Bob



Ilios



Plako



WB Save

Clan start definitely needs some more love. And copper.

Ilios is probably slightly sub par right now, but not that far behind.

Plako, Bob and HK are fine to go.

[Tholal]

Multiple Standing Stones and Remnants of Patria?

[NobleHelium]

So, no rivers? Not sure how I feel about that...

[Mist]

Yup. They are essentially an improvement like any other with only difference being that any event associated with them fires only once. On this map I treat them in a very utilitarian way as a yet another hammer/commerce/happy source, not as some sort of objective to aim for.

WB save after implementing feedback from Ichabod and balancing the starting positions somewhat.

[Mist]

So, no rivers? Not sure how I feel about that...

Yes. No rivers.

Rivers have three primary functions -

1) They provide food by farming.

I replace this by having much, much more food on the map than is usually present.

2) They provide commerce, directly by tile yield and indirectly by Brewery and Aristocracy.

There's more and better ( grass gold, plains incense etc. ) commerce tiles than usually happens. Abundance of food yields itself to specialists. Everyone can run cottages and/or trade routes.

3) They provide health

Health was never an issue in those games, I'd like it to be taken into consideration for once.

Secondary effect of no rivers, and one I'm pretty keen on in this setting, is a weakening of evil religions. Once AC crosses 50 and Hybo enters the game, most of the food present will risk changing into snake pillars if you're evil or AV follower. This is something the players will have to keep in mind as the game develops. Well, apart from Bob. Hybo doesn't care for rivers either way.

[NobleHelium]

I really think it's just going to favor Bob too much. Nobody is going to remember the hell terrain thing until it is too late. Bob can go AV and not care. The only thing that really protects you from hell terrain spread is Order, and that's only one religion. Being neutral via RoK does nothing.

Aristofarms are already nerfed in EitB. And it's generally not a good idea to remove options from players.

[Tasunke]

I really think it's just going to favor Bob too much. Nobody is going to remember the hell terrain thing until it is too late. Bob can go AV and not care. The only thing that really protects you from hell terrain spread is Order, and that's only one religion. Being neutral via RoK does nothing.

Pretty sure I agree.

Well ... assuming Bob doesn't start next to the Centaurs that is

------------

But yes, given this set up, we will certainly see an interesting game, but not a standard Armageddon game (I would think).

Now ... perhaps an easy fix would be adding a few Yggdrassils into the mix. Say 1 Ygg per 2 players, or 1 Ygg per (non lanun?) player.

Anyways, give em some Ygg's to fight over, and I think it will be more or less fine

[Mist]

The thing is - Bob would not care whatever I did, short of intentionally crippling him. Remember FFH PBEM VI, that map was absolutely horrible from development standpoint and Hybo beeline still happened way fast and nothing could stop it.

If anything gets added to the map at this point, it's going to be more horses/copper, because I'm not entirely certain there's enough hammers out there just yet. They don't need more food/happy/health from Ygg.

As for protection from hell terrain - each one of them got Tomb near the start. A network of Life 1 adepts makes for a decent enough crutch if you don't want Order.

[Tasunke]

Hmm, yea ... perhaps some more coppers for infra builds then.