[Spoiler] Any volunteers for a human sacrifice? Brennus of the Aztecs, by Krill

[Krill]

OK, pictures should be fixed now.

Wow...just wow. Finished reading all 48 pages (to date). Yep...way more interesting game than the PBEM one.

Thanks. It's not that hard to play a game passably IMO, but actually thinking about it can easily suck up all of your time (learnt that one from experience). Then writing it down...I'm lucky that the past 2 weeks I've either been doing short shifts or ill, so I've had the time to write it all down. I think I'm getting to the point where it's taking an hour to two hours to write some of these posts, then again, 1500 words/hour isn't exactly brief.

I hope the posts are still readable, not too heavy for the lurkers. My writing style was never great to begin with and it's still evolving.

[CFCJesterFool]

Kinda late to the party but I'm gonna ded-lurk your thread. Nothing you can say will make me change my mind.

[Krill]

So long as you've not read any other threads in this forum, you're welcome.

One note: azza had a 5 point score increase mid turn, means he captured a 3 pop city. Let's hope it was Teoi, and both of his axes are at 0.5 health. I'll play the turn in about 5 hours, still at uni.

[Krill]

I just logged into the game.

I'm guessing you guys might be getting a five thousand word turn report tonight...

[Square Leg]

I just logged into the game.

I'm guessing you guys might be getting a five thousand word turn report tonight...

woot

[Krill]

FWIW, Running total for the past 3 turn reports is currently in the region of 6400 words. I could probably reformat most of my posts and get a book printed if I wanted to.

[DMOC]

woot

:2dance:

I agree, let's see the reports!

[kalin]

Your thread is the one I follow the most at the moment. Thanks and looking forward to the report tonight.
Kalin

[Krill]

So that 5K word report I offered is not just a turn report. it is going to be a fairly straight forward turn report: azza did take the barb city ,and I have moved to deal with that, but the major fireworks come tomorrow. Today is more of a game overview.

When I logged into the game, I focussed on the area around Teoihuacon, now known as Lavender Town (oh, azza, using the Kanto Pokémon naming theme).

Well, that is probably not the safest place he could have put the fast worker. And I am pretty happy with that damaged axe...a quick check of the combat calc shows he should not have odds better than 27% against my C1 chariot on attack. On defence it is a rampage.

Wait. WTF is that in the bottom bottom corner?

ZOMFG, COMMODORE! :dancing5:

Last turn I offered wines to Commodore for his world map. He accepted. Now I get to see what is really out there. So let us take a look, shall we?

So, first of all I focus on the most pertinent opponent: azza. As I said before, Pokémon theme, and that means I know which cities he settled in what order without having to look at the diplomacy screen. Really useful...but his order of settling was Pallet Town> Viridian City>Pewter City>Cerulean City>Vermillion City.

Focusing on his capital, I am feel pretty sorry for azza because it is not a great capital, only 2 fp and a wet rice, but the gold kinda makes up for it: no need to cottage early or get pottery (no cheap granaries), focus on growing, and he has two other gold resources he can make use of. So just spam settlers for the gold, work the food, and there is no reason he should have so few pop working the tiles. 17 pop points is bad: I was at that number on T68, almost 30 turns ago. The rest of the surrounding land is not amazing but it can be utilised.

Something to consider though is that he had 2 really bad starting techs in Myst and Wheel. He would have had to tech Agri>Mining and then might even had have to go BW to chop/mine the hills, but he could almost certainly have gotten the extra hammer for the EXP bonus in workers, and fast workers would have been, well, fast. I can see reasons to settle either Viridian or Vermillion first, but both require hunting, and Fishing does not look like a great early tech for this start. There are a couple of dotmaps that place Vermillion to use the irrigated wheat as well or instead of the pig, but either are OK. I am not sure which tile I would settle TBH, but I would probably have gone with Vermillion first rather than fourth. Viridian would probably have been a decent second city: with two gold tiles, and a size 6 capital working the rice, gold, three mined hills and an fp farm you are looking at a 13 production per turn city in the capital, and 22 commerce/turn by T30.

The commerce gets turned into either a religion (which azza could have done earlier to take Meditation or Polytheism really early) and a run to HR (he does have wine and a reasonable capital to cottage) or just general tech to support each city as he runs minimal warriors (he needs 4 to barb bust his entire area inside the isthmi) and expands north to the jungle or east through the third gold. A city on the grass hill has 1 forest to chop for the barracks to pop borders and could use a lighthouse to get a up to +6fpt after the gold with enough happy. And that is an extra 19 commerce per turn available. That lets you put Viridian in position to take the copper, fish and cow, and two grass hills, and two lakes that can use the light house. And those are 4 pretty strong cities that you could probably get set up with a mere 3 fast workers, with the aim to have them down by T60.

So...yeah, it would be fair to say I think azza screwed this start up in a somewhat impressive fashion. He lacks horse, his closest one is next to Teoi and I am going to do my best to stop him having that. If I succeed he is actually a possible target with catapults, if distance was not such a problem.

Next, Nazul.

Nazul...I knew they were teching well, and now I can see why. Double gold city and a bunch of flood plains. And Currency giving them an extra 7 cpt. I assume that road off in the FoW is where Plakos capital used to be, and if so...Plako, I think you got lucky, getting eliminated that early. No copper or horse nearby for either of your would have meant a rather boring game dominated by who got to pink dot with 2 archers first. And Nazul had better land.

So, what do Nazul have? They have ivory and gold, which explains the size 7 capital (note there are two clams there, not one). They have wine but have not tried to use it, or gone for HR to grow the capital onto the 5 flood plains, 3 grass hills, ivory, wine and 2 clams available. Oh, and a dry rice, but another city could use that. let us be frank: they should have gone for HR and grown that to a stupid size. OTOH, it can only work 8 cottages: but with excess food should be pushing 5 turn settlers here.

But wait, they do not have much health here, do that? They have a decent amount of food, but it***8217;s mostly seafood: 4 clams, dry rice, 2 grass cow, grass pig...and no forests to chop at the capital. This is not actually that great a start. Like me, Nazul have only one tile making 6 fpt, but at least I lucked out and have another tile making 5 fpt. Still, I got the pig at my capital, they did not.

I am not entirely sure how they could or should have played this out. They are CRE, so Ludus as the second city is pretty obvious, and they are Egypt so Hunting is pretty necessary for pastureus for horse and with the animal food res they could have gone Hunting.AH before finding they lack horses. But with Ludus working the dry rice and pig it must quickly have grow to size 4 to pick up both gold res. After that I am not really seeing any one opton as the best move: They want to settle that jungle as the rest of the lands they can grow to are uncontested, and do not have anything they really need except that horse to the far north. That horse could have been missed and even then, it is not an easy resource to settle: I would probably settle 7 of the marble, but they do not seem to have settled in that direction yet. Maybe they just had a really slow start with no forests? that is pretty much the only thing I can see.

They do not seem to be a huge threat atm, with no horse or copper, but this is what we are going to be fighting over for expansion prospects:

Whomever gets a city on the hill 336 of my warrior can lock off a good chunk of that jungle. Like...I could theoretically get 90% of it. Along with a weakened azza, I think I would be trying to force an early concession by taking over my entire continent, if I was aggressive over here. How Nazul play out the next 40 turns is going to be a core element to how this game progresses.


And for the last of my continent opponents, Pingo.

Bah, bah I say, Commodore missold his map! I thought he would have better intel on Pingo if he invaded them. Pingo have 7 cities from the diplo screen, but I can only see 4 of the city tiles, a fifth 7S1E from the capital, the sixth 3S3E from the capital (Henge city, and the unknown seventh...I need to see if they settled those separate southern ivory. If so, I am probably not going to have any friends on this continent.

There is not an awful lot I can say about Pingos start. The capital is size 2 because of the war, they have settled the other continent for intercontinental trade routes, they just fought back to take the copper city, and they do not have horse. They got a ton of food though. It is rather tempting to go to war with them and settle between the two lake tiles and culture bomb them (and azza), then dismantle them one at a time. Something else I need to keep in mind.

Bismark of Ethiopia, though...worker production bonus on a start with lots of seafood and a pig. Could be worse I suppose, especially with Mining as the second tech. Looks like a tasty start, even if hte capital location is not going to be a lategame powerhouse. but a capital move to the Henge city with some of those cottages could work well, especially with that river there, if it is one continoous river.

I think they are in a weird position now. They could continue to settle the other continent, with Commodores load blown. Or they could push into the jungle area that they know I am fighting with azza for. rego would perhaps want to settle into me after I have spent hammers on controlling the area, but I am not sure if he is going to be that threatening when I am throwing out 6XP jags every turn, or 3 HA every 4 turns, from a single city. Pingo need to decide what they are going to do with this game, and decide it fairly quickly IMO. Settling for rivers and anything but jungle might win out.

Are they a threat? They could be. But they do not seem to have much pop at all, I can only see 7 and it is feasible they have less pop than azza. They need to hope someone in a position of strength does not take advantage of them...

Anyway, that is my continent done. Onto the other continent. This continent has Commodore, Cyneheard and yuris. Cyneherad I am not going to talk about much, I will let this picture do the talking:

that is right. 3 corn capital. With a PHI leader. On the brightside, looks like I will get an extra 1 gpt from Lafayette in 25 turns. With a start like that, and CHM, I wonder why he is not doing better on the pop score. Not complaining though.

Commodore though, not doing great.

Why is not he doing so great here? He has a 4 food capital, at least 1 food resource for every city except the tundra copper city that will get the ugly plains hill sheep. Copper and horse...but There is that Pingo pink dot city that has cut him off from the juicy jungly grassland. Can not say I blame Commodore for his attack looking at this map. looking through civstats, you can see he has slaved a fair amount, so it is not like the pop is low because of mismanagement. He went to war and it is cost him quite a lot.

So, I think Commodore made the right move goig to war. sure he could hav expanded more, but he really does not have much else to settle for: the only food res he has not claimed is the cow that Pingo have in the outer 12 tiles of the fatcross of the pink dot city. And Cyneheard has that southern corn claimed, he Can not even force his way to the jungle.

that is a hard game to play out. I do not really see Commodore being much more of a nuisnace any more, but he should be able to keep up in tech with TT enabled. If he can get the early techs cleaned out, which he might not get before it is too late, with Byz cataphracts on the table at Guilds. Will he be bale to slow Cyneheard down much? I seriously doubt it. I expect Cyneheard to plant a city on that desert hhill north of the wet corn and turn the screw, and there is not anything Commodore can do short of throwing the kitchen sink at Cyneheard. And Cyneheard should still win if he has copper.

What is the land like that Pingo, Cyneheard and Commodore were fighting over?

Um.

that is not bad, if a bit food light. Still, for a jungle area that you grow into after settling the core? Just farm it all to grow to max pop and then swap the tiles to whatever you want them to be. Without pressure and enough worker labour it is the quickest way to get productive cities.

And Cyneheard will not have much competition for it. Except from this guy.

yuris. Not doing great though. As I do not have contact with him I Can not figure out what order he settled cities in, but I think he settled them incorrectly.

yuris lacks happiness, and needed to raise it asap. He should have settled his fourth city 74 of where Zhukul is. He is CRE, so his borders would have popped to grab the wet corn, horse, and the gems. Even without hte horse, it is the best fourth city he could grab, just for the food and the gems. Belshir and Shakuras are not bad, could work a bunch of fp cottages and a plains cow to power tech to IW. That raises the happy cap and opens the entire jungle for cities, including a double gems, double dye and corn city.

yuris is playing the Netherlands, so he starting Agri/Fishing, so what does he need? Mining>BW>IW, means he knows he does not need AH, all he needs is Hunting, Wheel and Pottery. He does not need a religion or Myst for border pops, and he has two claims to work for a little extra commerce so he should have gotten to IW well before I got to Monarchy for instance. If this map is up to date, I think he misplayed it. If it is from T70, he did OK, but the positioning of Zhukul and the other corn city up north, means I do not think he is played it perfectly by any means. I think he might have gotten the gems hooked already with the size 6 capital, because he needs a source of happy to do that.

How will he make this work for the future? I do not know. IW and Monarchy, and Calendar seem like critical techs for him, and that is a lot of beakers to make with happy cap stuck at size 5. Currency, intercontinental trade routes and a bunch of cities on those islands works but just means Cyneheard is taking good jungle cities that yuris could hold, and I think yuris knows he needs the jungle. yuris has put himself in a bit of a bind and I do not think he can get out of this without putting himself in a weak position for when Cyneheard reaches cataphracts.

So, that is the second continent, with three players on it. That leaves Mick and scooty. They are either on their own little continent somewhere, either far south of Nazul, or west of Cyneheard. that is an interesting place for them to be IMO, far away from everyone with all those wonders.

And one last thing:

With airpower, those islands seem like a decent holding IMO. With galleons they will be important as well. Need to keep an eye on who holds them.


And so ends the first half of the turn report.

[Krill]

Anyway, on with the real turn report. This is where we left off.

There is a fast worker available for capture, and a 3.3 health C1+shock axe that Can not promote. That axe needs 1 more XP to promote, so I want to make sure it does not get it, promote to C2 and heal a chunk of health, becoming a significantly more dangerous unit. But where is the warrior?

Well, first things first

Interesting. If I move both of my chariots to the jungle 2N of the city, the warrior will not be able to stop me attacking the city, nor damage my units. But would it be worth attacking the warrior? Well, I would have 72% odds to win with my C1 chariot. 79.% with the shock chariot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOdjCb4LwQY

Computer says no.

it is not worth risking a unit that I need to take that city. Now that I know that azza is weak and will have difficulty contesting this city, I just want to take it, and I will beat him in the long run. One warrior is not going to have a major effect unless the RNG decides to screw with me. But just in case, I will not move any of hte chariots until after the warrior has moved.

Well...this is interesting. A medic axe. I do not think azza has any idea what is in store for him when he next opens the save. The axe is 3.1 strength, so 62hp. But...that axe killed hte first warrior, and just killed a second. Looking at azzas cities he does have a barracks built so it is possible that this axe has another promotion that it can take next turn.

This is where things get a bit risky. I could gamble that the axe does not have a promotion, as a 62hp C1 medic axe has a 4% chance of winning. An 81hp C2 medic axe has a 43% chance of winning. If I put both chariots 8 of the city, it is possible that I beat the axe on defence with the shock chariot, kills the second axe on the jungle and have the warrior left over to cover whatever is needed. The warrior would have odds on defence in the city against azzas warrior. but if I lost that battle, azza would have 1 damaged axe in the city with medic, 1XP away from promotion, a second axe that he could then put in the city and the warrior. I would have lost the city because I lost a 56% odds battle. I do not really want that to happen.

So both chariots need to move to the jungle 2N. Where should I finish with the warrior?

There are 7 choices.

1. Move the warrior 1 onto flatland grass in an obvious no brainer decision.
   
   
   
2. Stay on the tile it is on now: risk giving hte worker back, lose the warrior, and give that 1XP to the shock axe that I do not want it to gain. that is a no.
   
   
   
3. Move 2. Still in range of the axe, but it would drag the axe away from the city making it easier to capture and I would probably not lose a chariot. This would actually be feasible if all I want to do is raze the city and run away, but I want to settle this area and tighten the screw on azza. That means removing both his axes if possible. So maybe, if nothing else appeals.
   
   
   
4. Move 8. This is a weird move, it means I would have a very small chance of getting hte worker out alive, as I would have a chance to kill the axe that killed the warrior, and raze the city. but I only have 2 chariots and there is still a small (odds <5%), but there is a second option: the southern axe retakes the worker, northern axe attacks the warrior and wins. I could retake the city, and kill the northern axe. I think this is a feasible plan.
   
   
   
5. Move 9. The aim here is to just keep the warrior alive so I can scout with it: if I lose hte warrior, I will not be able to see if there is anything coming up the road to reinforce for azza, or see where his axes are without commiting my chariots. In this respect, the warrior is worth a significant amount, more than a chariot is in the jungle area thanks to the W2 promotion. Do I want to throw it away for a quick victory that I will probably win anyway?
   
   
   
6. Move the warrior 6 same as above, but the warrior can more easily move north or south as required next turn. Means it can move onto the jungle hill to check and still retreat away from the axe. Probably better than moving 9.
   
   
   
7. Move 3. But is not there a barb warrior down there? Yes, yes there is...and I do not want it to suicide against that shock axe. So how will I stop it? I could attack, but I am not sure if that is wise considering I lack odds. but on a flatland forest I might luck out and the warrior attacks on defence. Hell, it will get better odds against my warrior than it would against the axes, that is for sure. It will also be able to move 7 to check the city out unless azza moves one axe there to retake the worker (in which case exporation is not needed), or onto the jungle hill, or forest hill, to check for ininforcements.

So, I went with moving the warrior 3. The other option Iseriously considered was moving 8, and I think it is a viable move with the axes so low, meaning my chariots would be able to raze the city and take out one axe, and then trade a chariot for an axe if azza went for it. But that pesky warrior could have just taken out one of my chariots if I got a bad role or azza got a good one. I decided to not risk it and play safe.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

I think azzas best move is to retreat the axe in the city 1S, and retake the worker with his other axe. That gives him the chance to attack me with both axes if I take the city next turn.

But I do not have to take the city next turn. I move the chariots 1S and leave them there. Yes, azza could have the warrior in range of the chariots at this point, but the shock chariot should not be damaged much by a C1 warrior. If azza got lucky and hit 3 times (10% odds of hitting that many times or more), I would still have 78% odds against the C1 axe on the jungle. And I can take the city (if it is empty) and still attack with the same chariot IIRC. If azza just puts everything into the city? Attack and destroy on the first move, retreat a tile with the second so he Can not counter attack. End of problem. And I still have that warrior down south to see if he is sneaking anything up on me.

So, that is the hard bit done. On to the city stuff.

OK, what is the aim for this city happy wise? it grows in 11 turns, right? Well, with the labourer MM changes, it should stop growing in about 8 turns, leaving it 6 food from size 15. It needs happy and health before it can grow, likely sources are from Calendar. That is not due until well after T120, so probably going to have to consider working a scientist here, or just bite the bullet, grow 1 pop and eat the unhealthiness, move the grass mine to new a cottage after the GL build and work the scientist then. Not an horrendous idea actually.

Still boring. T123 GP. Keep on repeating it.

1 gold and 1 beaker leeway on the Aesthetics research. The plains got farmed to conserve worker turns on the way south. I know it is not hte best tile in the game, but with the HE it is not so bad, helping get the city up to 1 turn HA. A nice idea would be to grow it to size 8, with the plains farms to work, the city could make 40hpt to 4 HA every 5 turns. I will not want this city making Jags, because it will lose hammers due to rounding every turn (it will make 1 turn jags, axes and spears at size 7 already). That means I need to get another city with a barracks and get it making the jags for me.

Darrell thinks that I should not build the SoZ, but luckily when he understood that with Lit not getting researched until T105 (could have gotten it T104 before) there was no way for me to really get the HE until T108. And then it would have to build the stables anyway, because C1 HA do not fair well against C2 spears in jungle or forests. so the SoZ can be built earlier than the stable due to different tech constraints, yet costs 140 hammers more. but it gives 1 more XP and works on every unit, not just mounted. The hammer cost means that I Can not build, for example, another settler, or some more workers or chariots. But I Can not afford to expand atm, I do not need any more workers and I am already paying through te nose for the units I already have. so the SOZ just seems like a much better build than anything else the city could be doing right now.

This is a city that is just dying to have a barracks. it is either that or use it to spam settlers. I would prefer to get the barracks here and the settlers from GNAP. If GNAP is going to be stuck building Moia I do not want my barracks city offline, and this is the better hammer producer anyway.

The cost of not growing this turn is actually only 1 commerce, and an extra 1gpt for the chariot out a turn earlier. But that means I can get the chariot into position earlier, so it is obviously worth it for the war. The farm can get passed over to DP, and SC will build military for as long as necessary, probably throwing out 2 archers very shortly to run down through the jungle.

Note, archers on flat land die to cover axes quite readily, unless I can get walls in a city. So the aim is going to be to chop walls asap and rely on them and fort bonus to screw azza over. Should be fun

Moring boring. Shold be finished T99. Then...go knows what.

Something to consider: trading marble for stone after I finish the GL and HE (I do not want the NE in the GL city, I do not think I want that many GS), and using the stone to power through a Moia build. Should be possible to get it done in 10 turns with good planning.

I really want a CG archer in this city...so paranoid.

Nice to see the cities here and not have them blank. Note: I have never figured out what puts a city up the lists here, it is down the pop size, culture, and I think output (food, commerce, beakers, I am not sure what, but I know why I put cities on starvation they drop down the list sometimes). Anyone know the answer to how these cities get ranked?

that is a nice map to look at. Army size OTOH, not so much.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Soldier points I need to deal with. Two more chariots should help out, but they are not going to increase much for me until I get Archery next turn. And that is going to give me a slightly deflated GNP figure...on that note. I hate paying for units.

Final word count without pictures? 5011.

After thinking about it for a while, and with Darrell prodding me, I deleted the worker. I do not want an axe on that tile as it makes things slightly more difficult for me. Admittedly, he can now just keep the shock axe on the current tile, move the medic axe 2 and heal a fair chunk, but it is something he could have done anyway. Yes, if he had done that I would have had the worker, but I am not short on workers atm, and I could do with not paying for the unit or supply costs. I do not think it is a major game changer either way and keeping it was certainly viable, but end of the day it makes it easier to handle the situation if it is not there.

If I had kept the worker, then I would have most likely used it to road from the city to where the other worker is currently roading. That is only useful if I hold the city, and I am not certain I am going to be able to keep the city, so I would be paying the costs for it for a good 10 turns outside my territory. By the time it made it to my borders I would have a road to both city sites I',m planning on settling (Nazul and whatever other jungle city could be roaded to) with my current workers that have nothing else to do. If I had 2 more chariots down south I think I would have kept it. Maybe even 1 chariot...meh.