Spiritual Industries by Mackoti

[Krill]

It works out if you don't try to leverage it immediately.

[mackoti]

I see i am some posts behind Kyan, so lets start to discus something controversial.

But first Toth were are you?I will do updates promis, this turn finished worker moved warriour, nothing interisting in rest..

So what could get more views and replies:

1.Talking about the oracle,why its worth or not?
2.talikng about 'sparing parteners" in this Pbem?
3.Someone said something about a list, yes that one with the best players from RB.

[Gaspar]

I would be highly interested to hear your thoughts on the best players at RB, mackoti. Krill's don't interest me because he's a dinosaur.

[Ichabod]

I want a list too. But the other topics are nice too.

[Thoth]

Wow , I never had such an entartaining thread , so the secreat was to not write in it,I hope i will not destroy it with my beautifull english.

Your English is just fine.

Toth, i promise i will keep this thread updateed but just after 10-12 days ,because right now i am in the midle of moving house, but you can thread spam so we look scary for the oponents.

Hope the move goes smoothly for you.

I see i am some posts behind Kyan, so lets start to discus something controversial.

Controversial....hmmm. Politics and Religion tend to start flame wars so probably best to leave that crap to the Poly and CFC OTFs.

So something a little less upsetting is in order.

We could always discuss why FFH is so much better than BTS.

But first Toth were are you?I will do updates promis, this turn finished worker moved warriour, nothing interisting in rest..

I'm around....:D

Though I might be offline for a day or two so the rest of the slackers in this thread will have to help keep the post count up.

So what could get more views and replies:

1.Talking about the oracle,why its worth or not?

Yeah, that works.

But I suspect the answer to "is it worth it" is "it depends"

[Ichabod]

Well, oracling MC is worth for Mack here (or other tech). Let me try explaining why:

1. Since everybody thinks Mack will go for Oracle (I'm guessing this because that was what I thought), it'll be easier to get a religion when going to priesthood. A religion is a very great boost for a non-creative Civ. Only popping a second city border is already a great help, because everybody hates monuments.

2. Most of the early game Wonders are tied to the religious line of the tech tree, so an IND civ has sinnergy by going that way, anyway.

3. Priesthood is a dead end tech when you don't plan to get the Oracle. Yeah, it opens monarchy and CoL, but it's not very common to need this techs in the early game (and you could go for Monotheism to get Monarchy), at least not before Math/currency. On the other hand, Sumeria has Ziggurats in priesthood, making it a more valuable tech on its own (I don't know if the maintenance will be harsh here, but it's a benefit anyway).

4. Oracle + priesthood (spiritual temples) open up the possibility of a Great Prophet for a early shrine. It's not easy to farm prophets late game and a shrine can be very helpful. Maybe you want a different GP for your first one, but there's flexibility here.

5. Forges are very good buildings when playing an IND civ, when they cost the same as a non-EXP granary. First, they are a happy building (especially in planned maps where metals are common - i don't know the map, just guessing from previous games). Second, there are cities that aren't worth building a library, but you want to build something while growing (or to overflow into something else), even very early in the game.

Besides, MC tends to be very delayed if not gained by Oracling. Only having the option to build forges is already a big boost. You don't need to build them in the 10t following the Oracling of MC, but 25t later, they might be a key build, which you wouldn't have access without the oracling.

6. With Mids + TGL banned, Colossus is a very good economical wonder. And there's coast already revealed (including a potential site to build it). No one can beat a IND civ that oracled MC to it.

7. With spiritual, you can time the civics change more freely. There's no need to worry about double-revolting civics and things like that. So even if you delay Monarchy, it's not that big of a deal. With ivory already revealed and two calendar resources, Monarchy can wait a good time, it seems. This ups the value of other techs.

8. Is this AW? Trirremes can be a lot fun against people that don't have MC .

9. MC is on the way to knigs :neenernee.

Of course, maybe other strategies are better here and some of the benefits above are tied only to the Oracle, not MC. But, I wanted to write a bit, so there you go.

[mackoti]

Hey Ichabod i like 9 the most.But you have alot of good points there.I think i will take my time to build it, if someone finishes faster then so be it.

[SevenSpirits]

I think this pick is a perfect storm for Oracle. Spiritual means early religion is strong, Sumeria means Priesthood is strong, Industrious means Metal Casting is strong. Usually the cost of Oracling Metal Casting is that while you get a large quantity of beakers they are in techs you didn't really want. But in this situation all those techs have a real purpose.

The other big cost of Oracle is risk. You have to get Mysticism, Religion, and Priesthood, and put hammers in a wonder you probably don't have a multiplier for, and someone else might get it first. This is why having Oracle be a blindingly obvious play for you makes things even better. I mean who is going to compete for the Oracle against Ramesses of Sumeria? Which means you don't have to rush for it as fast as possible to lessen that risk. (Plus, see the first point - the risk is less for someone who wants those techs anyway.)

[mackoti]

Ok , this is the map.Question for lurkers, what they think i started to research, and where i will plant the city.Who is right gets a higher place in my soon to be published yerachy of the great players at RB.

[SevenSpirits]

A guess:

City will claim pigs and horses. Rice spot looks like backfill and doesn't have as strong resources for a second city. No other good sites are revealed.

Tech is either Pottery (for cottages) or Mysticism (to get Polytheism founded in the second city upon founding) or Mining (to make some river grass mines, but I think Mackoti will prefer Pottery strictly to this option). In the first case, city will go 1S of the peak below pigs/horses. In the second case it can go 2S or 1SE.

Claiming he knows where the second city will go already hints somewhat at a specific plan with a religion, but with Mackoti I'm more inclined to believe he will tech Pottery and settle with horse and pigs in the first ring. So that's my guess.