Rebalancing Civ4: RtR Mod

[mostly_harmless]

Some thoughts on air combat and the changes introduced to SAM.

I think the boost for SAM infantry is too much for a variety of reasons.
First, there is actually a counter for C3 fighters. Its two C2 fighters. Or Advanced Fighters. Basically the civ that can field more fighters or advanced technologies will eventually achieve air supremacy, which is absolutely fine. And C3 fighters don’t come cheap. You will have to heavily invest into XP generating mechanics to get them.
I think the problem arises from the intercept mission currently, and that fighters set on intercept stay “on duty” until the end. That means a C1 and a C2 fighter will kill a C3 interceptor almost always. You will trade your cheap C1 fighter against the C3 fighter likely wounding it in the process. Since the C3 stays on intercept, even when wounded, it will most likely be killed by the C2 fighter. The attacker comes out ahead, since he also grows XP on his C2 fighter. In “reality” you would ground your wounded C3 fighter to heal him up and save him. The current intercept mechanics don’t allow for that.
With the current intercept mission and even if it can be improved by some sort of “ground wounded interceptors” it allows the attackers to clear the path with superior numbers for the following bombers. As it should be.
Now, if you boost SAM infantry to the point that it is very easy to get 100% interception chance you will probably kill all air tactics. I believe the SAM infantry also stays on intercept duty for the duration of the turn? Or does it only get the chance to defend once? If the former, your 100% SAM infantry will intercept almost all incoming air units (evasion promo and I believe the interception chance is reduced by the damage level?). And I believe a fighter or bomber intercepted will not be able to kill the SAM infantry, only wound it (that right?), unlike intercepting fighters which can be killed.
I also think that intercepting SAM infantry does not lose any fortification bonus and therefore also gets healed the same turn.
I am happy to have this tested out in a quick 1vs1 modern start pbem in the next days.
The results of this pending, I would have the following suggestions:

- Make SAM infantry into siege weapons. To remove the ability to also be useful in land combat. Would need to have some mechanics for helicopter attacks though, maybe move that to Anti-Tank

- Open up Drill promotions to air units, to allow for first strikes in air combats and against intercepting land units. Basically make it more like naval warfare, which is already quite similar in the way that everything is ruled by who has the most units, but there is still more variety due to more promos. The idea behind say Drill-III fighters would be that there role would be to clear out the SAM-Infantry before the bombers come in. This will have come with the ability for fighter to either kill intercepting land units or wound them down to 10% or such.

-mh

[Krill]

The problem is that it's a fighter race: with limited numbers of air units per tile, there is nothing stopping either player from just stacking pure fighters and getting as much overlap as possible, thus eliminating the ability to 2v1 stronger fighters. Drill doesn't help the odds of fighters winning because losing combat promotions means that the odds are even worse than a C2 fighter v C3 fighter, and the second battle doesn't occur due to so many fighters being around. Bombers don't get a mention until after that first fighter battle has occurred and one players fighters have been wiped from the sky. After that point, there is no defense against bombers.

Currently fighters and bombers can get pinch, so don't have horrendous odds on SAM inf. Drill fighters (I checked the odds using rough back of the envelope calculations) generally get slaughtered.

As it currently stands in 2.0.1, SAM inf can only intercept once per turn: if there are 5 SAM inf in the city and no fighter cover, once they have all intercepted a unit they are useless. This generally means that you might lose anything up to 5 fighters (500 hammers on normal) to gain the chance to collateral the city. It's worth it under certain circumstances, it's not worth it under others; as a player you need to figure out a strategy.

Yes, the SAM will heal as they have just sat there and not moved that turn, the same as any unit that has been attacked but not moved.

Ultimately, SAM are not going to be able to defend able an entire empire alone, they need to work alongside fighter cover.

[Qgqqqqq]

Are there any changes to corps?

[Krill]

Yeah. They aren't in the game.

[Thoth]

Query: Is it possible to change the hp of units using xml?

If so, a lot of combat randomness can be smoothed by increasing unit hp.

[Cyneheard]

Query: Is it possible to change the hp of units using xml?

If so, a lot of combat randomness can be smoothed by increasing unit hp.

"Max hit points" can be changed, but you'd have to change a LOT of other things (including the effects of Medic, First Strikes, and a few other things) to not screw with the balance in other ways.

The effects of such a change on first strikes is non-trivial, even if you multiply the # of FS by 5 and HP by 5.

[Thoth]

"Max hit points" can be changed, but you'd have to change a LOT of other things (including the effects of Medic, First Strikes, and a few other things) to not screw with the balance in other ways.[

AFAIK (and I may well be wrong ) Medic and healing are based on a % of hp so increasing base hp won't change the effects of Medic et al

The effects of such a change on first strikes is non-trivial, even if you multiply the # of FS by 5 and HP by 5.

Agreed, FS mechanics would need to be changed to make the drill line worthwhile.....but let's face it: Who upgrades down the drill line in an MP game anyways?

[Partisan]

You'll definitely have to change a python script to display correct "combat odds" because uses a flat "100" in the calculations instead of looking at the xml file. I don't remember if you'll have to change a pair of functions in the dll as well. Not to mention how messed up is the whole First Strike mechanics.

I think to remember there was civfanatics thread about this?

[Krill]

That sounds like an awful lot of work for...no gain? I don't see why combat needs to have smoother outcomes.

[luddite]

I can see it being useful, to get rid of garbage outcomes like losing your capital to a 2% attack at the beginning of the game.

An easier way of doing that might be to give every unit 1 or 2 innate first strikes.