[NO PLAYERS] Witnessing Democracy Inaction

[timski]

Curiouser and curiouser! TEAM have "done a Pirate", by settling in the borderlands, and the Trolls are responding Menagerie-style, by planning to attack the new TEAM city... Of course both teams are fundamentally better placed: TEAM have Archers and roads, although notably no Copper yet. The Trolls already have Axes on the field, and sufficient economy to produce more without the distraction of Wonders.




But this is still an unexpected chain of events. Has the excitement of early war in a "diplo game" gone to everyone's heads? Already drunk on the smell of fresh enemies in the morning? The Trolls have the perfect rapid expansion civ/leader setup, but as a result of further war with TEAM they are not expanding. Plako's logic is that TEAM choose Archery to perpetuate war, and hence the Trolls need to act aggressively now for their ultimate defense. All appear to accept the pyrrhic victory of preventing TEAM from winning.

By all means make life difficult for TEAM by standing an Axe on their Horses. But I don't see the advantage of (Suryavarman of India) focusing on conquering the Horse City itself, when half the map is still unsettled. At the very least find a way of dragging Gillette into this conflict, who are, after all, also TEAM's enemy. As things stand, Gillette have won. Assuming the fifth team don't get panicked into military builds because all the cool kids are building military...

[Commodore]

Ah, but reading Gillette, they have to be aggressive in their diplo towards M3, because they are desperate? Um. I guess we have to put our faith in Mortius being Mortius and perhaps sending an axe southwards.

[Sullla]

I'm very disappointed in how this game has gone. I thought we'd see a very high level game between some outstanding players. Instead, we've got totally nonsensical early wars and ridiculously aggressive city placements on all sides. I feel like this game has regressed back to 2010 in the quality of play taking place. Exciting, sure, but a game can be exciting without being well played.

Team's actions have never made any sense to me throughout this game. They more or less ensured a state of permanent war with one neighbor, and that they would have no friends anywhere else on the map. That new city is idiotically placed; it was guaranteed to provoke extreme hostility from team Troll. We've seen how Team already had to research Archery tech and build multiple archers, plus sink a dozen worker turns into building a long road from the capital. This is just not good play. Cool gaming it up, indeed. I guess they're not making any attempt to win the game, and simply want to troll around? Disappointing.

Barring a major shift in the game's diplomatic landscape, Gillette wins the game in a walk. They are the only team not blasting themselves in the face with a shotgun.

[Commodore]

I know it's not "optimal play" but it is fun to watch the high-skill ancient warfare match in between TEAM and Trolls. The attempted trap for the axe, trying to get in a kill on it while keeping at least one archer intact, really is fun high-risk play.

[NobleHelium]

Fortify both archers?? Are you nuts Lewwyn? If you have a 40% chance of winning on two attacks then you have a 40% chance of winning on one defense and one attack. And then your city is empty with an axe next to it.

[timski]

Lewwyn does appear to be talking as if the Troll Axe had been mortally wounded by taking the Warrior bait, when instead the Axe sustained minimal (all 3 figures visible) damage. As TEAM correctly fear, Troll do have a second Axe inbound, so even if they get lucky on the dice rolls again, there would be an interesting stand-off, with the Trolls having to risk their own city to advance on TEAM's city. But more likely TEAM would just suicide their Archers, leaving their city open to capture.



(By end of turn Troll's Axe occupies the location of TEAM's Warrior. Troll can't see TEAM's Workers, nor can TEAM see Troll's second inbound Axe.)

To my mind, the most sensible move for TEAM would be to group both Archers 1W of their city this turn, then move both into the city the following turn. The lone Troll Axe couldn't usefully attack a double Archer stack, so would likely go South East to threaten the city, thus keeping it 2 turns away from the Pasturing Workers, which is TEAM's main aim here. Of course whether TEAM can still then prevent the Axe from pillaging those Horses is quite a different question - once the Troll Axe is outside TEAM's city, TEAM will be forced to keep two units as garrison, allowing Troll's Axe to move round the perimeter with impunity.

Regardless, defending those Horses was always going to be tricky: I'm almost expecting TEAM to whip a Chariot in the brief interval between the Horses being connected and the Horses being pillaged. While Chariots have a movement advantage, I can't help but thinking this will turn into a war of attrition, since the Trolls already have a Spear under construction. TEAM's opening Chariot might destroy the pillaging Troll Axe, only for TEAM to immediately lose their Chariot to a Spear, and then lose their Horses again! Normally we'd expect TEAM to have settled Copper in the interim, but with so much focus on early warfare, are TEAM even going to be able to settle a fourth city in time?

At this point I conclude the Trolls have the edge tactically, but so much could change on dice rolls, as is the nature of early war.

[timski]

So what are TEAM going to do now? TEAM retreated both Archers, such that they have an Archer in their city and an Archer on the Deer (able to move only as far as the Horses next turn). But TEAM's Axe can now threaten both the city and the pair of Workers on the Horses next turn. Keeping both Workers on the Horses while covered with just one Archer is asking to loose all 3: Even at low odds, the chance of stealing 2 Workers would be worth it, and Axe-on-flatland-Archer is good odds. So I presume TEAM will have to retreat everything outside of their city north. That will allow the Troll Axe to both hold the Horses, and threaten the city, and split TEAM's forces, and prevent the city being reinforced prior to Troll's second Axe arriving... Surely the best move the Trolls could hope for. I don't see how this can end well for TEAM.

Meanwhile, did Menagerie genuinely dry-whip an Axe to "solve" prior unhappiness problems, or did I miss something there? I presumed that their erstwhile turnplayer started building a Worker as a more efficient way of using those 2 citizens, presumably on the basis that they had adequate military to take Tortuga, but would need Workers to improve it after capture. But HitAnyKey clearly felt they needed more military now. Yet from the way in which Menagerie's military is dribbling up to the front-line, I'm not sure Menagerie has planned out the battles at all: Surely either those 2 Axes now visible to the Pirates should be going for the kill immediately, or they should have been kept in the fog for another turn or two while the next 2, 3, er 4 Axes join the attack force? Sight of the first two Axes has resulted in the Pirates whipping another Axe in their capital, which will now be a factor in any combat involving Menagerie's final Axes. That probably wouldn't have happened if Menagerie had held back until they were ready.

[NobleHelium]

Yes, TEAM will lose Losing unless they get very good combat luck. Not sure about Pirates but it looks like they'll hold for now.

[NobleHelium]

@Lewwyn - settle west of the fish for horse, and then on the tile between the crab and copper later to get the copper.

[Sullla]

The war between Pirates and Menagerie is about to come down to one big dice roll. It all depends on what happens when the Menagerie axes go in at 20-30% odds. We could see anything from low-odds wins taking the cities, to no-damage losses leaving the Pirate city untouchable. All luck at this point, because the number of total units involved is so low. And in the other war, Trolls can render Team's aggressive city useless but not capture it outright due to the archer defenders.

I hope this game is illustrating the foolishness of early game Ancient era wars and aggressive settlements. Everybody loses. The only way to win is not to play.