[spoilers] Commodore: Worse than Toku, it's Giggles of Siam!

[regoarrarr]

also:
And they don't have Rego as a ded lurker. (or so I'm told)

Correct. I am globally lurking.

And chin up, you could be Churchill of Portugal

[Commodore]

And chin up, you could be Churchill of Portugal

I would prefer a Fishing/Mining civ here, unless something exceedingly sexy south in fog.

One last thought, wonders: There are a ton of Ind civs, so forget most. The GLH is nice and 23% of its cost is in the lighthouse, so...maybe? The biggest is Magellan's...think we can try for circumnav?

[Thoth]

Agree mostly, but unfortunately, I think that grass due east isn't forest, but rather jungle. Which means we might lose the banana early to growths, dangit. Like I said, if we assume Mardoc/Krill count eventual 5/0/2 clams as real food, BW, fishing is the only way.

It's a cold, rainy Saturday. So I'm a bit bored. Whummped up a quick and dirty sand box (I'm not sure of the game settings so I went with Prince/Huge) and played a couple of openings.

Sip.
Worker first working Silks. Bronze/Fishing. Built worker/warrior (completes eot 14 as does Fishing)

Worker moves to FGH and starts Mining the tile

tunr 15: Worker finishes mine, chop hammers go into workboat. work mine for two turns to finish wb

turn 17: clams netted and worked. Food 12/14. Growth to size 2 at eot.

turn 19: Chop completes finishing second wb at eot (worked mine and clams at size 2)

turn 21: Second Clam netted and worked. Growth to size 3 at eot. 3rd wb at 7/20 hammers. worker starts chopping another forest. 13 bpt. Techs: Bronze, Fishing, Wheel 1t into Archery (due in 2t)

Turn 22: Start settler (due in 8) working 2 netted clams and grass mine.

Turn 23: Take chop hammers into wb. Archery done.

Turn 24: Overflow into settler, worker moves to PHF to start mine

Turn 25: Net 3rd Clams. work all three Clams for 2t putting 2h into an Archer.

Turn 27: Size 4. Resume settler build on 3 neeted clams and Grasshill mine

Turn 28: Ag finished.

Turn 29: Mine completes. Chop hammers finish settler at end of turn.


Turn 30: 2 mines, 4 pop (growth to size 5 due at eot 31), 3 netted clams, a warrior, a worker, a settler and an archer due at eot 32.

Only 1 worker turn into a road so Wheel, Ag, Archery and the beakers into Pottery could be spent on Myst/Poly first.

Similar opening (bronze, fishing first then Myst/Poly. By working the third (un-netted) Clam at size 3 we can finish Poly at eot 26. That should give us a very good shot at landing the religion. We've got enough forests that stealing an early Oracle from the hordes of Ind leaders is possible. If happy is low then using Oracle to sling Monarchy would set us up nicely.

We'll have enough capital forests left after the WB chopping to do a wonder.

If we land Hindu then either ToA or Oracle for some Prophet points would be nice. SIP makes a lousy Beuro cap but a freaking awesome GP farm. With a LH and Baray we can run 6!! specialists at size 9.

Palace move isn't all that expensive if we can find a suitable site for cottage spam.

And chin up, you could be Churchill of Portugal

I would prefer a Fishing/Mining civ here, unless something exceedingly sexy south in fog.

Yeah, Hunting is junk but Fishing is pretty cheap to tech.

One last thought, wonders: There are a ton of Ind civs, so forget most. The GLH is nice and 23% of its cost is in the lighthouse, so...maybe? The biggest is Magellan's...think we can try for circumnav?

I'd love to get some early galleys into the water to try for circumnav. If we throw a unit or two onboard.....we might even get the chance for some shenannigans along the way.

I'm not sure GLH is all that worthwhile. It's only +1 tr for coast cities. Nice to have, sure. But I'd rather have ToA in our GP farm or an early Oracle. Especially if we chase an early religion.

[regoarrarr]

Yeah, Hunting is junk but Fishing is pretty cheap to tech.

In RBMod Hunting is actually pretty good. It's just as expensive as Ag and Wheel, so you don't lose out on beakers, and since it enables pastures (instead of AH) it's generally fairly useful as well

[Thoth]

Yeah, Hunting is junk but Fishing is pretty cheap to tech.

In RBMod Hunting is actually pretty good. It's just as expensive as Ag and Wheel, so you don't lose out on beakers, and since it enables pastures (instead of AH) it's generally fairly useful as well

True, but unless there is a Pasture resource nearby it doesn't help us much out of the gate.

Oh, and commodore:

I think we can do better than that in terms of completion date if we want to grab Monarchy (tech PH directly after Poly instead of wheel, archery, phood, pottery). If we can skip Archery we should be able to do a t40ish sling of MC.

[Thoth]

True, but unless there is a Pasture resource nearby it doesn't help us much out of the gate. smile

Actually, given how cheap Archery is in krillmod, having Hunting to start with isn't bad at all. Especially if we're gimped for early strat resources.

Are barbs going to be on?

[Commodore]

Yup, barbs are on. I like the direction those sims head for, although Normal speed, Monarch level, Large map means timings will be different. I liked that location a lot for a second city, though. Truly, once all the clams are online its a very nice city we have there...maybe even worth making Moai there? Moai means Oxford OR National Epic, but not both, are available.

[Thoth]

Mod Mechanics question:

Khmer: Ballista Elephants are 8 str, +50% vs. Mounted units, +25% vs. Knights, and still target Mounteds outside of a city (this buff was to make them better than regular WE against their nemesis, Knights).

Does the 25% bonus vs Knights stack with the +50% vs Mounted?


Commodore: We *really* want a source of Ivory. Pro Longbows, cats and BEs will make us pretty much untouchable on land defense for a very long time. We'll need a navy as well, but that's ok because I think we want a navy.

*pre-post edit*

Just saw this:

Yup, barbs are on. I like the direction those sims head for, although Normal speed, Monarch level, Large map means timings will be different. I liked that location a lot for a second city, though. Truly, once all the clams are online its a very nice city we have there...maybe even worth making Moai there? Moai means Oxford OR National Epic, but not both, are available.

I'll update the sandbox.

I'm thinking NE for sure in the cap city. We can push out a *lot* of GP from that city with Caste/NE. Oxford can go in an inland cottage spammed city. Possibly with a palace move if we want Beur rather than Vassalage. Moai doesn't synergize well with a GP farm. Moai cities want to be working those sea tiles and GP farms want to be working specialists or mines. We'd need to grow to size 14 in order to both work all 8 sea tiles and run 6 specialists vs running 6 specs at size 9. So we'd need to come up with 5 additional health and happy plus take the turns to grow. It might be worthwhile, but I think we can get better value if we put Moai somewhere else.

If that is a three tile island offshore, 1w of the Pigs would make a decent Maoi. Very good if there is more seafood hiding in the fog. But Moai is expensive without stone and with nerfed Slavery overflow whipping into Moai also gets weaker. We'll want a site with some land hammers and/or forests so that we can build Moai in time to be useful.

If we do go for early Hinduism, NE/Wall street makes a strong pairing in our first city.

That second city site jumped out at me. It's trade connected via in borders coast, borrowed a clam from the turn it was founded. Added 4 commerce per turn total at a cost of 1gpt.

The best thing I like about that city: Our second city site will be *at least* that good. We haven't even seen our full BFC yet.


I normally don't like seafood starts all that much, but with tons of forest to chop and a mining start we can grow and tech quite quickly. Plus we can postpone worker techs other than Bronze until later which gives us a shot at the religion/Oracle run. Bronze/Fishing/Myst/Poly/Phood/Wheel/Pottery is the bare minimum we need for a Metal Casting sling. I'm liking our start position. :D

Barbs is a mixed blessing. We should be able to farm up a level 4 unit. But barb galleys are a PITA even with Triremes.

[Thoth]

So it looks like we're going with the new map.

At least I managed to keep myself entertained with sandboxing a start we won't play.

[Krill]