[SPOILERS] scooter, pindicator, and Huayna Capac try some fast Zulu cuisine

[pindicator]

Changing topics, i can't find any improvement on Noble's plan of ilhanda to size 2 - wb - worker. If we were IMP i might try settler first, but at this point i'm looking at what our follow up should be after the worket. (Right now i like building a second worker with help from a chop and then growing the capital on a warrior while chopping into a settler. We get city #2 on t41.)*

*Edit: That build gives us our 2nd city t41 with two netted clams and a warrior that just finished end of turn. Plan on planting 3W of the capital so city #2 can work one of the netted clams for initial growth.

[pindicator]

Came up with an alternative to the Ikhanda-to-2 -> workboat -> worker plan. No guarantees that it is better, but it's the first alternative that I haven't dismissed out of hand as being worse

The idea is Worker -> Worker -> grow with warrior while chopping in a settler. Tech path is Mining (9) -> Bronze Working (26) -> Fishing (33). The 1st worker pastures the pig and then sits on his butt for half a dozen turns. The 2nd worker comes out right in time to move onto a forest before BW comes in. Then we grow with a warrior and alternate to a settler when the chops come in. We get the settler out end of t32 and found city #2 on t34 (again, i'm going with 3W or 3W1S as our 2nd city location). We have no netted clams, 7h into a warrior, and have chopped 4 trees, Technology has Mining, BW, and Fishing, and is 31/103 into The Wheel on eot35. A 5th chop will finish up a workboat on eot36.

To compare, if we build a settler directly after the worker in the ikhanda first plan, then we get our second city up on t35. We have 1 netted fish and 1 worker and chopped 1 tree with the 2nd chop coming on t35. (Edit: But considerably farther along in Commerce. Wheel would be at 92/103 here.)

Ikhanda first is probably better, and i think it may even be better to delay the first settler to t41 so we can get a 2nd worker out. So I probably need to compare these two:

Ikhanda to 2 > WB > Worker > Worker > Warrior & chops into Settler
Worker > Worker > Warrior to 2 > Settler > ??? to t41

To see which start looks stronger.

[NobleHelium]

If you want to get really aggressive, I think something like this is it:



City is founded t43, but so what? Look at the setup on t45. We have Pottery already and with the initial seafood GNP we can probably get a religion relatively easily. Well, could be beat out by good hut pops I guess.

Ikhanda -> work boat -> worker -> work boat -> work boat (mine-chop) -> 2t warrior (overflow) -> settler at size 5 (chop + 2-whip) -> warrior.

We should probably plan to lose the ikhanda hammers. The decay delay is only 50 turns and I don't think we should be building an ikhanda over a granary. Given this, it's probably better to put the hammers into a warrior in case we need to build one in an emergency even if they will decay before we finish the worker.

Anyway, I'm not sure if any of these super aggressive plans are realistic. We will probably need a warrior sooner for defense. Unless Nakor's scout comes over and fog busts for us.

[NobleHelium]

Opening choice advantages!

Ikhanda first: we can rename the thread to "Ikhanda First: Rushing the World".
Warrior first: we could choose to finish the warrior after the first worker when it still has 2h left from the earlier hammers.

[regoarrarr]

Since Barracks (and Ihkandas) now give culture, and are thus kinda like a buffed up monument, you could name it Monument Start 2: Electric Boogaloo

[scooter]

Ok, as painful as it is, we're prettty much convinced that our best opening looks something like this:

t0: settle, tech fish-min-bw, ikhanda/warrior first on pigs.
t7: switch to wb, grow EoT
t8: @sz2, work 5hpt on wb
t14: net clams. work clams/pigs on worker
t24: start improving pigs. max-hammer into wb until pigs finish
t27: pigs/clam on wb, growth in 2t. go chop anything with worker.
t29: start wheel, wb, and chop. (sz3)
t31: chop completes into wb at 23/30h for 17h of overflow
t32: 1t warrior (overflow). grow to sz4 at EoT by working clams/pigs/2f tile.
t33: start settler on 2 improved clams + pigs + grass forest (or w/e really). also start chopping 2nd forest.
t35: 2nd chop goes into settler. go chop a 3rd forest. wheel in EoT, pottery next.
t39: settler schedule to complete EoT regardless of chop (it's at 96/100). finish chop for a bunch of overflow.
t40: 28h of overflow +2h worked = 1T work boat for the 3rd clams. settler starts moving.

Longterm it'll be OK, but in the short-term I hate this start. It's so awkward and you have no great choices. You realistically need Fishing and Bronze Working both to be able to do anything useful, and we don't start with Fishing or Mining. I'm glad we can at least pasture pigs at Hunting or else this start would be even worse. The high tech costs of a big map like this is the main thing wreaking havoc on our plan. Worker-worker + Mining-BW-Fishing sucks - you end up deforesting basically everything for no real benefit. Worker first sucks - your worker ends up twiddling his thumbs for a half dozen turns.

So the plan is to burn 7h on absolutely nothing for the first 7T while growing to sz2 and finishing Fishing. THEN we'll get a "WB first" start and go from there. We get 2 WBs, then our settler at EoT39 and the 3rd WB at EoT40. It's slow and awkward... and we waste 7h on nothing at all. Still, it's the best we can come up with with this weird start.

Opening choice advantages!

Ikhanda first: we can rename the thread to "Ikhanda First: Rushing the World".
Warrior first: we could choose to finish the warrior after the first worker when it still has 2h left from the earlier hammers.

Well we are the thread renaming gurus, so Ikhanda first probably has to be it.

More seriously, I still favor Ikhanda over warrior. The warrior will start decay on T17 and finish on T22. There is a 0% chance we will build a warrior by then - everybody starts with scouts. Well ok, I can think of one scenario where it might work. A neighbor could come out of the fog with a scout and hit that hut to our west, popping a warrior, and send him right at us. Miniscule chance and all, but I guess we should consider that.

Ikhanda will start decaying after 30T. We'll stop on T7, so start decay on T37 and end decay on T43. Like you said last night, but the time the settler & 3rd WB are out, we can build granaries, which we'll definitely finish before an Ikhanda. So yeah, I changed my mind in this post, let's start the warrior first.

[pindicator]

Buildings decay at 50t, but warrior first is still the safest play. Unless you think we'll want to build an ikhanda by turn 60ish.
Edit: But Ikhanda first definitely looks cooler!

[Cyneheard]

Can warriors be popped from a hut in MP play? I thought that didn't happen?

[pindicator]

Can warriors be popped from a hut in MP play? I thought that didn't happen?

You're right. I remember Seven or T-Hawk talking about this in PB7.

[NobleHelium]

Yeah, buildings decay in 50t on normal speed. 30t is quick speed.