[SPOILERS] SevenSpirits becomes self-aware

[Cornflakes]

Question: If Nicolae had not reinforced the empty city with a WC would you have burned it or left peacefully? This is the first all-war game I've ever watched so I'm trying to understand how it compares to an AI-diplo game. If this was AI-diplo would you respond to an empty city differently than you would here?

BTW, I don't think I said this earlier but I liked the video of your start. In general I think that reading is easier than watching/listening to a report, but for the starting micro it was nice to actually see what you were doing and hear you explain it.

[NobleHelium]

An empty city! ... but unfortunately, he moved a WC there the following turn, dashing my hopes of seeming incredibly nice by running away instead of attacking.

[SevenSpirits]

Question: If Nicolae had not reinforced the empty city with a WC would you have burned it or left peacefully? This is the first all-war game I've ever watched so I'm trying to understand how it compares to an AI-diplo game. If this was AI-diplo would you respond to an empty city differently than you would here?

I would have left it alive.

If I raze it, I'd expect to provoke quite a bit of irritation, which could be really bad considering I'm still running a farmer's gambit. Especially because he's Egypt: Chariots are the most useful all-around ancient unit on this map, because mobility is important, since you have opponents equally close on all sides. And, chariots can defend reasonably well against other chariots, which is pretty much enough to deter most aggression. But war chariots screw this up; you definitely need spears to defend against them. And copper is in a really annoying location on this map; there is no first-ring food by it. War chariots are at least as threatening to me as the other three opponents combined.

And, razing it only barely helps me (it's pretty fresh city) and doesn't hurt him enough to make him no longer a threat. Plus I'd probably lose the razing chariot so I'm not even convinced it's a good hammer exchange. (I need to get better than 4:1 hammer ratio to come out ahead since it's a 5-player game.)

[SevenSpirits]

Things are going well. Haven't had any invaders yet, and secured copper. And the fast workers + math snowball is just going crazy.


That's right guys - I have two long-term traits, ORG and FIN, and started 4t in the hole, and here we are.

Power is fine - I'm currently slow-building some spears, and in fact I could produce a spear in every single one of my cities this turn if I had to. GNP is getting a 1.2 multiplier, but it's worth noting I've only built a single monument in terms of culture buildings, so it's really good. Here's an empire view:



Looking at the terrain revealed by my initial exploration, I focused on the insane river valley at and north of my capital. I decided to plant a total of three cities to by strong cottage centers. The first is of course my capital; the second is the horse city; and the third will be settled next turn, north of the capital. This is the weakest one because it only has a single resource (the wheat), but it also has the greatest number of riverside tiles. So I'm going to need to have a laser focus on growth and infrastructure here.

My teching is going great:



Heh, that really looks like a Calendar beeline. Of course, the most important aspect was the fast Math, but Calendar here is just crazy. I already mentioned in the last update that it's worth an insane 4 happy, and, well, that was incorrect. It's worth FIVE. All are within fairly easy settling range, and none (save the sugar which I've already settled on) have jungle, so I don't even need iron working.

Here are my units:



Not much to see there. I need more of everything. Probably a few extra workers would help, though I haven't had trouble yet. Speaking of workers though, let me show you what I've been doing in the last few turns, which demonstrates how nice fast workers are:


A few turns back I roaded the grass hill in the bottom center, while moving a settler there. Two other workers roaded the fort tile in the bottom right so a chariot could arrive in the city on the turn of its founding.

Next turn, I roaded E of the copper with two workers, founded the city, roaded on the copper with one worker, and chopped 1E of the new city with the fourth.

Turn after that, four workers finish the copper mine + road, just in time to chop or whip a spear if Nicolae's WC was following me home (it wasn't), and in time for my scheduled commencement of spear-building in general.

Now this turn, I chop the silk to accelerate the granary, and put 1 more chop turn into the forest 1E of the city.

t52 I will found the next city and farm the wheat.

t53 I will chop two forests for the new city, and it will work a cottage (borrowed from just-whipped Tureen Machine) for 2t, reaching 9f, while Crypt Geography grows on the wheat, its granary having been completed t52.

t54 I'll build them a grass farm to share.

t55 with Calendar in, I'll build the silk plantation.

This would be so much more difficult without fast workers. I couldn't just move in and out of forests willy-nilly when I have turns to spare. I couldn't just casually chop a forest in 1t with 3 workers, without a massive loss of efficiency. I couldn't just transition the workers between cities every turn as if the tiles were adjacent. Wow, it's so nice.

[NobleHelium]

Yeah. What do you think about the fact that you have one food resource for those two cities? Minor annoyance, or more significant?

[SevenSpirits]

So strategically, how am I doing? Let me discuss the areas where I'm doing badly.

1) Culture. I have no religion. I have no good option for a culture building. (Libraries are 60h, and Monuments are mediocre as always.) My opponents have founded the first three religions, built stonehenge, and started with the ability to build terraces. So I have a disadvantage in land area, have perhaps a slightly worse dotmap, and can't claim contested areas as effectively.

2) Wonders. Serdoa has built stonehenge and oracle. I wouldn't be too surprised if someone finishes pyramids soon. Colossus is effectively fallen to Serdoa because of the oracle. And, since I'm using up forests pretty quickly, I may have some trouble with later wonders, too.

The reason I'm doing badly in these areas is because I knew from the outset that I'd be disadvantaged in them. Starting at -4 turns, and not having an early game trait, while others were SPI and even IND, made it a losing proposition. But anyway, as soon as I get happiness taken care of with calendar research in a few turns, these are what I'll need to start addressing.

On the positive side, I've had top crop yield for several turns now, the best long-term traits, a strong tech rate, military security, and (in a few turns) a fantastic happy cap. I seem to have caught up from my 4t deficit already, which I wasn't expecting to have done at this point, facing three expansive leaders and someone without any turn handicap at all.

[SevenSpirits]

Yeah. What do you think about the fact that you have one food resource for those two cities? Minor annoyance, or more significant?

There is a lot of land on this map without a food resource. It's pretty irritating (not to me personally, but to my empire, and everyone else's). Crypt Geography is just going to be a bad city, but I basically had to settle it to get copper - the other copper is in too inaccessible a location, and I don't want to defend against chariots with archers.

We haven't had maps with such low food level areas in most games here. I think they're kind of interesting. Part of the reason for it is the Mirrorland script follows the resource ratios from base civ, which are lower than handcrafted maps we've used. But also part of it is some really out-there RNG results in the map generation: we got a staggeringly high quantity of luxuries and stone/marble here. (BOTH stone and marble, and every luxury except for wine and ivory... I've never seen anything like it on this script.) And that means it will place a couple fewer food resources.

[SevenSpirits]

I've researched calendar and have just been growing my population for the last few turns. Also I settled a city SW of the marble and will chop out the MoM there soon if no one beats me too it. (Have to wait 5 turns for the border pop to claim enough forests.) I consider my odds to be mediocre - less than 50% - as Serdoa and Mackotisub could very easily be competing (and the others could also be). Mackotisub has a size 7 capital which suggests calendar and I expect him to like MoM. And of course, Serdoa is industrious and had a head start on all of us. Meanwhile only one player has currency! I'd be really surprised if no one else had calendar by now; it's too bad I can't check anymore since I have it too. Post calendar/masonry I've just been saving gold, but I'm planning to make a run through polytheism/aesthetics/literature next, and try to get the great library. It's worth a lot to me since I haven't invested anything in a great person yet. I also hope to get Music, which will be useful both for the great artist and for border pops. I was thinking about going to CoL for that (Confucianism), but that seemed risky. I'd need to go through either currency or priesthood, neither of which is a tech I badly want right now.

[SevenSpirits]

Picture dump.













MoM due in 3t, t64. Not sure if I will win that race. Probably I'll build Parthenon instead if some else gets it.

GL due in the capital on t65 (was planning t66 in the pics but I think I can spare another worker). I get Aesthetics and Literature in the next 3 turns and then build it in 1t with my last 4 forests and a worker whip from 39/40. Since no one has Aesthetics yet, I am fairly confident I'll win that one.

I am getting an eastern coastal city in a couple turns. Main reason is to build a galley so I can get an island city. We shall see when a second island city looks possible - I'll want currency by then. For now though, being first to Code of Laws and/or Music is more desirable. I expect I'll get Music but will have to take Philosophy for a religion.

[pindicator]

Yay for updates!