The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[NobleHelium]

Ok, I see.

[kjn]

Sullla's comment about Archery prompted me to do a GNP check, and I can now say with near-certainty that WPC teched Archery on T44. Running 100% science, we get a bonus beaker for the tech, so it is known by one of our three neighbours. And it's not CFC, and in all likelihood not the Germans.

Research back to Math, at 40%, before I logged out.

[Sullla]

Two late score changes on T61: CivFanatics whipped their capital from size 4 -> 2, and UniversCiv planted their 5th city. Demos:



CivFanatics is now Rival Worst in Population at 33k. They have cities of size 2, 3, 2 in total. I'm really not sure what they are doing with themselves; they have consistently had some of the smallest pop and Food totals throughout the game. And they aren't building an army either, as we can see their Power rating on the graphs and it's only average compared to us. I will be curious to see their forums after the game and find out what went wrong. This has been a very weak opening from them. (I concur with our posts in the other threads that suggested only CivPlayers and Apolyton have executed truly strong openings, with German team and CivFr somewhat behind them. Everyone else = very weak.)

UniversCiv is the first to 5 cities, on the same turn that We Play Civ founded their 3rd city. They are also tied with Apolyton for most pop in the game at 16. On the other hand, UniversCiv was the team that founded 3 cities with 1 worker, and they have never whipped even once so far the whole game. (We have whipped 5 pop so far, and we will have 15 pop compared to their 16 pop next turn.) UniversCiv is also 580 beakers behind us in terms of techs researched. In other words, a lot of growth onto unimproved tiles, and high maintenance costs dragging down research.

While we're at it, I rank the teams in this current order:

1) Realms Beyond (religion, Stonehenge, 4 cities, 13 pop, exceptional research)
2) CivPlayers (religion, 4 cities, 14 pop, decent research)
3) Apolyton (4 cities, 16 pop, good research)
4) CivFr (4 cities, 13 pop, good research)
5) German team (4 cities, 11 pop, lots of Terraces, horrible research)
6) UniversCiv (5 cities, 16 pop, decent research, poor infrastructure)
7) CivFanatics (3 cities, 7 pop, good research)
8) We Play Civ (3 cities, 11 pop, decent research)
9) Spanish Apolyton (3 cities, 8 pop, horrible research)

[kjn]

Thanks for catching that, Sullla! I've been bad with checking civstats lately.

[kjn]

Lets start with the score changes of the late T61, that Sullla caught:

Univers claimed 9 tiles with their fifth city. When looking at the land area, one thing strikes me: they haven't expanded any borders but in their capital! Yes, monuments sucks (unless you're CHM), but a key early monument or two can help you catch a critical out-of-the-way resource and give a much better long-term city. Or has all the teams had the same luck with resource distribution and clustering as we had?

CFC whipped their capital from size 4 to 2, and have relatively little overlap between their cities. I guess it is a settler whip.

[kjn]

T62 - 1520BC

Cliff's Notes: CivFr grew a city to size 4, the Germans grew their capital to size 6, and CFC grew a city (probably their capital) to size 3. CFC has also been engaging in heavy research swapping, but I think they have researched both Hunting and Fishing now, but unclear on exactly which turn.

Demos:

Only four score increases this turn. We got five score from two city growths, the Germans got 3 from 1 pop, and CivFr 2 from 1 pop. CFC got 9 score, pop and a tech.

The new rival worst is 48000, so I will assume that CFC's capital Indira grows back to size 3. That leaves 87000 population to divide between the Germans and CivFr, and it is growths from a size 5 city and a size 3 city. CivFr doesn't have a size 5 city, and the top cities screen confirms that Webringen is size 6. That leaves a growth to 4 for CivFr, and I put it on their second city (their third city is also size 3 and a possible candidate).

Global power rose with 5000, of which 3000 came from pop. I should note here that the rival top in power definitely built an axe last turn, since that rose with 6000. That leaves 2000.

CFC got their tech in 1t, so they must have done some research swapping here. A comparison between the GNP graph and the gold graph from APTmod confirms this:




What is shown here is the gold graph overlaid on the GNP graph - sorry for the crappy quality. The thing that should be compared here are the shapes of the green (CFC's gold) and the purple (CFC's GNP) lines. The graphs do not fit perfectly - there is one more turn shown in the gold graph, but the trend is clear: CFC researched Writing while doing putting in a few turns of another tech. The relation between their tops and bottoms are 318:228, which is very close to 1.4:1.

Working from our top GNP of 86 (T59), I get computed GNP values for CFC of circa 47 and 34. This means Writing in 5t and an undiscounted tech in 3t, if I interpret their GNP fluctuations correctly. I think Hunting is most likely, which meant they probably got Fishing on T57. Or something.

My conclusion from all this exercise is that CFC is engaging in heavy research swapping, likes to like building up a large stockpile of gold and then spending it on getting several techs in a row, and has a quite strong economy at present. But I can see through their counter-C&D!

Buddhism is at 4%, which with 117 total pop points (barbs also count) requires a total of 5 pop following the creed. That means it is present has spread to CivPlayers' newest city, and is present in their B (size 4) and D cities (size 1).

[kjn]

T63 - 1480BC

Cliff's Notes: The Germans whipped their capital to size 3 late in the previous turn. The Spanish grew their capital to 6 and their second city to 3. CivFr grew cities to size 4 and 2. Either CivFr or the Spanish are the rival worst in power, probably CivFr. The Germans has been confirmed to not be the rival top in power.

Also, a barbarian settlement has been razed, probably last turn.

Demos:

Late in the previous turn, the Germans had a 8 point score decrease, corresponding to a 3-pop whip in their size 6 capital, almost certainly of a settler. However, it occured the same turn the city grew, so they must have set it up in advance.

We gained 2 points, Spanish 5, and CivFr 7. CivFr received 2 land points, leaving a net of 5. That means both the Spanish and CivFr grew 2 pop each. Despite this, the rival global population shrank with 22000 due to the whip of the German capital. The population rose with 107000 if the whip is removed from consideration.

The top cities show 2 unknown size 6 cities founded on T0, so the Spanish has grown their capital to size 6. That leaves 47000 over 3 pop, corresponding to cities each of size 3, 2, and 1 growing. That puts the 2 slot on the Spanish and the 3 and 1 on CivFr.

The Spanish now have cities of size 6, 3, and 1; CivForum of size 3, 3, 2, and 1; and CivFr of size 6, 4, 4, and 2.

Rival global and top power held constant, but rival worst increased from 30000 to 31000. Both the Spanish and CivFr added 1000 to their power from pop, while the Germans lost 2000. I thus stlll guess that CivFr is the rival worst power, and neither the Spanish or the Germans are the rival top power.

The claimed land area increased with 8 tiles, unknown which team. It is probably not the last German city to receive a terrace, because then rival top in land should be at 77000, and it's not CivFr (not due yet for CRE expansion and would pass us), CivPlayers (would pass us), or CFC (rival worst). Ie, I think it's a monument build by WPC, the Spanish, or Univers. It might be a library build by Apolyton, but I don't think they've had enough time to slow-build a library yet in a secondary city and then wait five turns for the borders to expand.

One team has razed a barbarian size 1 city, since barbarian pop dropped from 3 to 2.

[kjn]

The Spanish has finished their turn, but not before whipping their capital from size 6 to size 4.

This also caused our capital to appear on the top cities list, as #5. Right now, population size dominates the rankings - it is only CivFr's capital that has enough culture to make a real impact on it.

Since rival worst in power went 30000->31000 (CivFr gains 1000) -> 30000 (Spanish whips) I can conclude that both of them are very low in power value, which makes it very likely that WPC is the top rival power. I recommend that we gain graphs on them as soon as possible.

[kjn]

CivFr also performed a 2-pop whip this turn, in one of their size 4 cities.

Also, the information that a barb city was razed this turn proved to be false.

[kjn]

One more whip and one new city.

Demos:

CFC settled their fourth city - Daivagait - and claimed 6 land tiles. This pretty much confirms that they did a settler whip T61. This leaves the new rival worst in land with 54 tiles, and I'm fairly sure it's either WPC or the Spanish.

WPC whipped their capital to size 5, putting AO as #4 on the top cities screen. But the most interesting part was the power value: a global drop of 3000, and 1000 of rival worst. Global population (including barbs) also fell with 2, not 1, so one team has lost a warrior and probably razed a barbarian city. This time I doubt it's a case of cry wolf.

But the most important news is that it is confirmed that WPC is the rival top in power at 73000. Of this, 31000 comes from pop and tech, and the rest from units and buildings. I think they've built a barracks earlier, and they might have finished a totem pole by now, but the rest - 38000 - comes from units.