[SPOILERS] Serdoa as DeGaulle of Maya

[Krill]

More spam please Serdoa?

[Qgqqqqq]

He might've been, umm, distracted by WW.
Still, updates

[Serdoa]

Well, I realised I get more lurker posts by not posting at all

No, but I'll make one in 2 turns. At that point several things will happen and the update will actually make sense.

[MindyMcCready]

You need more lurker posts?

You got that post for posting.

[Serdoa]

Ok, ok, I'll post an update now.

First, a look at the world as I know it (Big):

As can be seen, I am enclosed by jungle. I had one potential site to settle (which I did) but thats it. For everything else I either need Sailing or Iron Working. I decided for - Priesthood. I have built the Oracle, will get some Galleys and settle the islands while building the Colossus. That should take care of my financial issues. I am right now far behind the pack in expansion I think, but there was really no way I could have expanded much anyhow. Well, not exactly true. Had I known about that Stone-island earlier, I would have gone for a quick Sailing, followed by Masonry for Pyramids. But I didn't.

So, anyhow. I'm going to settle a few islands, get to Currency and Iron Working asap and take the jungle. I will be behind in expansion for certain but maybe I can offset that by a strong economy. I'll probably try to get Pyramids. I can get up to 33 hammers / turn with all boni in the capital, so that would take ~15 turns to build it, awfully long but it is not like I have much choice. Maybe I can find a better spot northeast of my land.

However, maybe Pyramids are not even necessary. With Colossus (even without FIN) I should have at least an ok-economy and if I can settle the jungle (I haven't found competition down there and hope that they will expand in another direction as well) I should be able to drive my production up via workshops. After all they just need Caste now to be as good as mined PH/GLH. Of course I'll need Civil Service as well, to get farms down there.

The other possibility would be to attack Azza. But I think thats too late now. I had pondered with the thought to build Axes (instead of the Oracle) and visit him with around 8-10 of them. I don't think he would have had much to counter them with nor that he would have expected them. But that would have meant gambling my whole game on those assumptions and I'd rather play a little bit longer with the believe that I might be able to pull a win off, no matter how bad my start is in comparison with others. And I really think it is, at least for those I can see. Azzas start with double-gold nearby and good food surplus in the cap is just great, Lewwyns isn't that bad either and has some nice expansion-spots as well. Right now I hope those two will fight each other and from Azzas last performance against Krill I think he won't be a pushover, so that might very well make them both weak enough that I can come in at the end and take both their land.

Ok, enough dreaming, back to facts. Demos:



GNP is fine, though I have a little bit extra culture due to religion (I got Buddishm). MfG is atrocious, but hey, I have a total of 3 grassland hills in my land that are not jungled. It is kinda hard to get any kind of production going with that. Food of course is also bad, as I said, I am behind in expansion and it is felt the most here. My only hope is that I will be left alone for quite some time while others start to bash heads. If that happens I can at least get a good placement I think.

Overview shot of my lands:



Yes, I should have gone Sailing earlier. 2 cities is really not enough, especially with just 6 pop total (though I whipped the second city 2 turns earlier to help the Oracle along). But I did only know about the land in the north in the last few turns. And I had to make a decision much earlier if I try for Meditation -> PH -> Oracle (getting a religion and therefore more happy, as we have nearly none) or if I go Sailing and take it from there. And going for Sailing without knowing if there is anything worthwhile to settle (without Colossus Water-Tiles would be really, really bad, with it, they are just bad) didn't seem the best choice.

Questions?

[novice]

Happy Christmas and thanks for the update! I'm catching up on PB8 now with the forums being quiet. The starts are often a bit dull to lurk anyway, but I think this will be interesting to follow from this point. I hope you'd agree. Even if you don't rate yourself the current favourite you seem to have interesting avenues to pursue.

No questions really, I like your 2cc approach though.

[Qgqqqqq]

Dotmap?

[Serdoa]

Well, it is T82 now. I have Colossus. I have 4 cities (it seems most players have either 4 or 5 - at least from the 4 I know). I will add hopefully no. 5 soonish and no. 6 not that soonish but still. I will get IW as well, to finally get rid of that jungle. As I wrote in last update already, I misplayed this start by not going for IW extra early. I could have done that and be fine. Or follow my plan to build 10 axes till T50 I think it was and go hurt Azza. Would probably have worked as well.

Anyhow, I don't actually see to be that far behind - well, thats a lie. I do have 4 cities but my 3rd city was the dumbest plant ever. Look at the map in the last screenie. You see the stone island? Yes, the one with NO fucking resources anywhere nearby. Guess who settled it and has not build a single fucking thing with that stone... exactly. It is still size 1 and actually I basically ignore it. So in reality I am at 3 cities. Thats not good, but as I said, I should soon expand a little bit. I am just still not used to normal speed and have the feeling that everything is awfully slow. I think normal speed + a map that is not nearly as lush as our standard PBEM maps (god, if you only play PBEMs you don't realize just how ridiculously some of those maps are - and I called Commodore out on it when he mentioned that in my PBEM46 thread, but he is right).

Next plan is to get more cities, and expand to coastal spots to use Colossus as best as I can. I do have the highest GNP, leading by around 20 and I think I can actually get that higher by quite a bit - IF I can get more cities settled. But that needs galleys which cost 50 hammers... 3-4 turns in my cities to build those. And I will need workers like no tomorrow to get rid of all the jungle. I have 3 currently... and no forests to chop, no whips to help. *sigh* Why can't we play those at quick speed? I wouldn't feel so lost.

[Serdoa]

Got IW, no Iron anywhere nearby That will be such a fun game to play. Now I don't just have to expand north, west and east, no I have to expand far into the south as well. *sigh*

The worst is that I simply misplayed the start badly. I don't think I was wrong in not expanding more, but I simply should have diverted 20 hammers to a workboat much earlier, knowing that I would soon have to make the decision between Sailing and IW. But I didn't. Thats the biggest flaw of my play I see, up to that point. Of course, that got worse later by settling the Stone-island (ugh, that was really, really, really bad. That was so atrocious that I didn't want to even think about PB8 for several weeks after).

I think I am doing better now, getting probably two cities in the next 3 turns. But I still need more workers. And now Biglew has shown up with a chariot. That doesn't exactly scare me, except for the fact that it means that Azza is probably done. I have copper and spears if necessary and can easily whip a spear. But I'd rather not have too and stay peaceful with them.

Btw: Thats something that RB-Mod really makes akward: Getting Open Borders. At Alphabet you really don't want to research that. Yes, I know that this is exactly the reason it is there. But without diplo itself, it gets really hard to convey the message that you want peace. I mean, I can't trade anything with them, I can't give them open borders. I could just give them my map - and no, that is not an option.

[Serdoa]

So, what happened till now?

1.) Azza threatened to raze one of my cities so I had to trade him my map.
2.) Probably everyone near us has it now as well, because I traded with some more people afterwards.
3.) I still don't have any Iron nearby. There is one 14 tiles diagonal in the NE, one 18 tiles in the N, one 15+ tiles down in the south (and basically settled by scooter + parted from me by a huge jungle).

To put that into perspective: I have the maps for 7 of my opponents. And NONE of them has the same issues with Iron as I do. I also have the least food nearby PLUS I've started sitting in the jungle. No, that map draw was not very kind up to now. Krill, should I expect no Oil as well? I wouldn't be surprised tbh.

Anyhow, I am thinking about playing without Iron. I wonder if that is doable in a sensible way. I wouldn't mind so much that I can't build that many land troops, after all, I would just have to pass on

- Pikes
- Crossbowman
- Knight
- Cuirassier
- Cannon

The last one is actually the one hurting the most. But even worse (and that is already worse enough) is that I can't build Frigates or Ships of the Line. That means I would have to defend with Privateers till I can get Transports and Destroyers. Um, thats not going to work on such a water-heavy map with me having to settle on islands and different continents (kinda, it is one big one, but it is shaped so akwardly that I'd need to walk my troops for 20 turns and through Azzas lands to get to my other holdings). If I could hop from one city to the other it would be fine, but I can't.

What to do? I'm at a loss with this map tbh. Bad starting locations (after having visibility on the others, I really have to say that I certainly have the weakest starting location, in terms of the BFC of the starting city as well as expansion spots), no Iron nearby, Horses only in a bad spot. Normally I should already be out of this game. The only thing helping me is that this starting location also meant that nobody bothered with me for 100 turns. And I think at least for another 20 no one will look in my direction. Well, not exactly true. They are probably looking, because of all the wonders (Oracle, Colossus, Pyramids, Buddhist Shrine). But I don't think anyone intends to attack me right away. In the end, I have not settled up on anyone yet, because no one even wants that bad land.

And thats probably my biggest problem: All the land around is bad. There is a small stretch that is ok (and, who would have thought, of course thats the part that is contested by others) but the rest is just awful. Nearly no food resources. One (!) 5-food resource within ~200 tiles, everything else is 4-food (well, I think there are 4-5 of that kind, at most). I don't know, but looking at the land around the others, I really have a hard time seeing how I am supposed to play. Probably just turn around and play dead and hope that all others have killed each other before they remember me...