[SPOILERS] Lurkerloos and map discussion

[Zed-F]

Seems unlikely that Scooter will get caught off-guard if Commodore accepts cease fire. Both sides are wanting to do economic development, both are going to do so for now, both are going to keep a wary eye on the border area and the power graph.

Also, war keeps the ivory hidden better than cease fire, since it prevents the resource being seen in the trade window even if he does hook it up for happy purposes. Commodore wants either peace (so he can pink dot) or war (to hide his lux); cease fire is less attractive than either of these to him.

[timski]

Some of us were quite harsh on Azza in PB7 for not seeing Mackseven's early invasion coming. But there is a pattern emerging, with much the same thing now happening against Lewwyn/Bigger.

Why?

1. Azza's overall strategy has its quirks, but isn't bad. It would work fine against an AI opponent. One that isn't looking specifically at Rome as a Iron-era problem that might be best dented prior. In a nutshell, Azza hasn't adjusted to multiplayer.

2. While beelining Iron isn't necessarily a bad play for Rome, it leaves nothing to chance. Azza's perplexing lack of roads is a case in point. Sure, roads were not absolutely essential to hook up early resources, but such a lack of roads has made it impossible to mount a proactive defense. Not that Azza had much to defend with: No (own) strategic resources, no usable military technology. What use is Ironworking and the Great Lighthouse when your army consists of 3 Warriors?

3. As Bigger has clearly realised, Azza is rather too reluctant to divert from their economic plan when faced with war. On turn 62 Azza comments on the "bad news" of multiple Lewwyn/Bigger appearing on their northern border, yet still proceeds to lay down undefensible (see roads and military above) border settlements while producing Workers and Granaries.

Without Scooter's gift of Horses, Azza would be heading for the exit. As is, it seems highly unlikely that Rome will be able to get its Iron connected. The PB2 comeback analogy fails because Lewwyn/Bigger are at the top of the map with only one place to go. It is hard to imagine circumstances where diplomacy would give Azza a chance to regroup. Scooter certainly isn't going to be marching troops north to assist while Commodore lurks on their border.

[novice]

I think Azza made some pretty obvious mistakes here, so I didn't see any need to comment on them. The wheel (especially with happy resources going unhooked) and archery (and pottery) before grabbing Iron Working would have been good, you don't need to see anybody's graphs or anything to realize that's a good idea.

Really good play by Scooticator to gift Azza horses.

[mackoti]

As i said no wheel in MP and seeing no strtegic resource and knowing neughbour its lewwyn and stil goin for avery long tech to research...,thats fault play.

[Gaspar]

You just can't skip roads in MP, or at least MP without diplomacy. There is literally no consideration for which delaying The Wheel as long as Azza has is acceptable in this environment.

The scooter/pindicator horse gift is a quite nice play in the short term, but Lewwyn's temper might make them regret it if he finds out. Probably not as much as they'd regret letting Lewwyn eat Azza though.

FWIW, I'd just plant the city on the iron and plant something else for the other resources later after the war is resolved. Needs must, and all that.

[timski]

Well, I feel sorry for Lewwyn/Bigger. 3 units immediately gone, without so much as a red line on Azza's new Chariots.




What's curious about that screenshot is that Azza has pulled out of Billy Talent. Explain that to me: Yes, the city would likely be lost, but if the city-defending and fortified Warrior damaged the invading Chariot, Azza's nearest Chariot would be able to hit the Lewwyn/Bigger Chariot as it left. Not ideal, but what is to be gained by retreating the defender Warrior? Nothing I can see. That unit is redundant on the front line, especially with the entire war being fought out with 2-movers.

So again I think this is a case of Azza not reacting quickly to changing circumstances. They had a remarkable run of (frankly) luck over the last 2 turns, which has completely changed the balance of the war. Yet they're still playing in "sky is falling" mode, in spite of now being in quite a strong position. Unfortunately for Azza, their mindset may play in Lewwyn/Bigger's favour: Azza will presumably be glad of a White Peace, and will delay settling their offshore Copper another few turns in favour of Chariot production. That may be just enough for Lewwyn/Bigger to secure the Iron spot.

[fluffyflyingpig]

Azza needs to pump his next settler out asap and settle ON the iron. Since Lewwyn lacks metal Azza can still win this war if he can secure the iron.

[Qgqqqqq]

Disagree with Timski.
From what I can gather, lewger has yet to play, meaning that the city would be razed the same turn the charriot moves to the forested hill, giving Lewger a turn to pull out regardless.

[SevenSpirits]

Disagree with Timski.
From what I can gather, lewger has yet to play, meaning that the city would be razed the same turn the charriot moves to the forested hill, giving Lewger a turn to pull out regardless.

Yeah, but what's he going to do with one turn to pull out? There's nowhere safe 1t away.

[Krill]

Plako should have planted that island city 2W on the hill