The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[kjn]

Yeah, I always forget that MM has built a library. It's set as our WS city in my mind. And the library in TH hasn't started to kick in full bore yet, anyway.

Anyway, I've been behind on the C&D work here. As noted earlier, CFC performed a 5->3 whip that was directly visible in their city of Daivagasi, and then CivPlayers performed a 3-pop whip. That one was also readily visible, on the top cities screen. They whipped it just as it had grown to size 7 (it was size 6 as per T85).

Screen shots:

Right now CivFr has two of their HR-fueled cities on top, besides CFC's Indira and our AO and MM.

Based on this, I'm not sure if Apolyton built an academy in their capital. An academy would generate 4cpt from T68 in their capital, or 72 culture. Then a library, built T59, giving 54, and capital culture in 85t, 170. The culture in their capital should thus be circa 296 to our 204.

Our capital gets 55 F+H+C this turn, so the 18 in difference from culture is pretty significant. If Apolyton's capital is size 6, then I think they might have settled their first Great Scientist. Or they built the academy in a city that's not their capital.

Or they have whipped down their capital to below size 6, but with an early academy you usually want to keep the size up and generate lots of commerce or beakers.

[waterbat]

moving discussion of the hammers-in-the-box over to this thread.

Before that - wanted to say THANKS:

EDIT. Fixed it.
The WebMod01 folder must not exist in the MyGames/BtS/MODS folder.

mh

6 months later - thanks for the tip m_h! worked like a charm

so i started a "Foreign Production Tracking" sheet, but its really rough draft right now. I think the following formula:

hammers = sabotage_production / city_revolt * 650 / 6

has some rounding quirks. I expect that the game figures out sabotage_production and rounds that down as a result of its calculation. So therefore, we would expect hammers to always come out a little low - rounding up our result should be fine. BUT - i put in the numbers for Wismar:
sabotage_production = 103 city_revolt = 656
result was 17.0097, and subsequenty, doing a reverse calculation with 17 hammers meant sab_prod was 102.94 - which the game normally would round down to 102.

[kjn]

Yeah, one runs into rounding quirks quite often. I decided to show the "raw" unrounded number in the pop tracking sheet, because the percentage was rounded, and then rounding down sometimes would underestimate the total population, leading me to think that the barb population suddenly had shrunk, or that the score increases from pop were greater than the population growth according to the F8 screen.

In these cases, I think rounding to the nearest integer or to two decimals is better than rounding down. After all, we are doing the calculation that Civ does in reverse.

[T-hawk]

When using any of the reverse-engineered C&D formulas, round to the nearest integer. Remember that these formulas aren't exactly represented in the game, it's a backwards projection of many numbers that might go through many rounding and truncation steps along the way. 102.94 certainly means it's actually 103.

The hammers don't always come out low by way of a truncated Sabotage number. If the City Revolt number loses more to truncation than the Sabotage number, then the hammers will come out slightly high. Anyway, it will virtually always be within 0.1 of an integer, so just use the nearest int.

[kjn]

T87 - 700 BC

Cliff's Notes: Modest pop growths for most teams, but Apolyton grew 4 pop points this turn. CivPlayers researched a classical tech, tentatively assigned Monarchy.

Demos:

Score table:

Team	Score change	Pop	Tech
RB	17	5 (+2; 34 total)	12 (Calendar)
WPC	3	3 (+1; 17 total)
Apolyton	10	10 (+4; 24 total)
CivPlayers	14	2 (+1; 23 total)	12 (1 classical)
CFC	5	5 (+2; 27 total)
Univers	3	3 (+1; 31 total)

No wonder or land points this turn. F8 analysis tells is there were a total of 10 new pop in the world, and one of them belongs to Alemanni. This leaves only room for a single pop point to CivPlayers.

Total rival power increased with 11000, of which 2000 goes to Apolyton and 1000 to CFC for population, leaving 8000. APTmod shows a small increase in power for WPC, probably on the order of 2000-3000, but Waterbat's tool gives numerical data that's inconsistent with the data from demos. Not sure if this is due to a bug in the software or that APTmod feeds strange values to the Google graphs API - I guess the latter is more likely.

CivPlayers researched a classical tech in 4t, and both rival top and average GNP fell markedly. Thus I note them down for Monarchy for now. I imagine their prior research path has included Masonry and Monotheism. We should know as soon as we make contact with them.

CFC grew their capital to 8 and also built a Jewish temple there; the whip in Daivagasi produced a Jewish missionary.

Note for when we meet CivPlayers, under our choice: we should record our GNP for Masonry, Monotheism, and Monarchy for both before and after we meet them in-game.

Also, as a bonus, what I think has become my favourite graph for gauging the performance of a team, the tech tempo (techs over time) as a function of the number of worked tiles (sun of pop and cities):

[kjn]

CivFr performed a 1-pop whip in a size 2 city.

The barb population (as reported by F8) also somehow shrank from 9 to 7. We'll have to see when or how our neighbours react.

[NobleHelium]

Uh well we just captured a size 2 barb city, so I would expect the barb population to drop by two, yes.

[kjn]

That question was the type of thing that should be considered a rhetorical device.

[Sullla]

kjn, I'd like to delete some of the Google Docs spreadsheets that we aren't using to clean things up a bit. I'd like to know if I can get rid of the following:

* Demos Graphs (are we even using this? not being updated)
* Turn Analysis (not updated in 30+ turns)
* Power History (very outdated)
* History Overview (third different version of the score tracking for some reason)

I don't want to get rid of anything we are genuinely using, but these seem to be taking some extra space without serving any purpose.

[antisocialmunky]

If it is just out of date, it might be a good idea to keep them for post game retrospective reasons - if it is not duplicated somewhere.