Why is it not worth? I am not saying to do it so that we send CFC stone one turn early but rather so that we get it. Also, if sending the stone 1 turn earlier makes us getting the NAP and all it may be probably worth. We should consider the option if available.
(February 18th, 2013, 00:55)kalin Wrote: Why is it not worth? I am not saying to do it so that we send CFC stone one turn early but rather so that we get it. Also, if sending the stone 1 turn earlier makes us getting the NAP and all it may be probably worth. We should consider the option if available.
Kalin
Because whipping a wonder carries a huge hammer penalty.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(February 18th, 2013, 00:08)Sullla Wrote: Not to spam the thread here with non-topical posts but if they were going for Pyramids... why the living hell didn't they settle the desert 30 turns sooner?! It makes no goddamn sense! We would have given that spot to them if they had gotten off their asses and settled the stone. Now suddenly it's a life or death decision to claim that resource?
WTF CFC?!
It's possible they didn't really think about the Pyramids until recently, when it kept not falling.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
For the record I think what they are doing, asking for free resources in exchange for the NAP and then planning to settle as far in our face as possible, shows that they are completely unserious about being our friends. We might want to re-evaluate our diplomatic goals in light of this. CFC looks to me like a poorly-run civ with hardly any in-game ability to hurt us, but inclination to be our enemy politically despite any NAP. So a NAP with them doesn't really benefit us. It may just benefit them and helps them hurt us.
That is not to say that we should give up on them, but let's not get caught up trying to appease them at high cost.
(February 18th, 2013, 01:30)Merovech Wrote: It's possible they didn't really think about the Pyramids until recently, when it kept not falling.
Possible, yes. But then why tie themselves into a knot and antagonising a powerful neighbour that you have good relations with in getting stone right now?
If they had planned for the Pyramids, they could have claimed the stone spot 25-30 turns ago easily. We wouldn't have contested the spot. Instead they researched Monarchy on T95 and adopted HR - indicating no plans for the Pyramids up until that time.
My take on it: CFC is a very poorly organised team that is totally lacking in vision on how they want their game to develop.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
(February 18th, 2013, 01:40)NobleHelium Wrote: Well, I've always said: CFC is not our friend.
We wont have any real friends from here on out, I expect. Still interested in a long NAP, but we def can be done giving in to whatever CFC wants.
Basically agreeing with everyone above. Great Wall though is a handy wonder when we expect wars to come to us. I'd also like to deny GWall from civPlayers for great spy based reasons.
(February 18th, 2013, 01:40)kjn Wrote: My take on it: CFC is a very poorly organised team that is totally lacking in vision on how they want their game to develop.
Highly likely.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(February 18th, 2013, 01:40)NobleHelium Wrote: Well, I've always said: CFC is not our friend.
We wont have any real friends from here on out, I expect. Still interested in a long NAP, but we def can be done giving in to whatever CFC wants.
Basically agreeing with everyone above. Great Wall though is a handy wonder when we expect wars to come to us. I'd also like to deny GWall from civPlayers for great spy based reasons.
oh come now, WPC clearly wants to be our friend
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
