Rebalancing Civ4: RtR Mod

[pindicator]

I think the fact that people want to play random maps with it is evidence of its success in increasing balancing between leaders & civs. I'd definitely be interested in a game where people draft or do a blind pick, but rbmod has been able to sate the communiy's random fix for the short term. I bet it gets used in other avenues as well

[Bigger]

I think the fact that people want to play random maps with it is evidence of its success in increasing balancing between leaders & civs. I'd definitely be interested in a game where people draft or do a blind pick, but rbmod has been able to sate the communiy's random fix for the short term. I bet it gets used in other avenues as well

when I have more time (hopefully before pb8 ends) I'd like to start an rbmod pbem with a 4321 4321 draft. balanced or handcrafted map . I think that would be fun.

[Krill]

OK, so a continuation of the trait balancing discussion. What I'm about to discuss is not something I intend to implement, but I appreciate other peoples opinions on it. I mentioned a few days ago that EXP, if it were considered weak, could be improved by gaining cheap aqueducts. CRE is also lacking later on as well, and there has been an idea to give them cheap observatories.

So, if those two changes were to happen, how would players compare EXP and CRE to other traits considered strong in popular opinion like SPI and PRO, but also the unchanged traits of IND and PHI that have variable usefulness?

Below are the effects of the traits:

CRE: +2 cpt per city, +100% production of Theatre, Colosseum, Observatory.

EXP: +35% production of workers and work boats, +100% production of Grocer, Aqueducts and Harbour.

IMP: +100% GG production, +60% settler production, +100% production of Customhouses.

CHM: +2 happiness per city, +1 happiness per Broadcast tower, -25% XP per promotion.

PHI: +100% GP birth rate, +100% production of University.

IND: +50% wonder production. +100% production of Forge.

FIN: +1 commerce on tiles that produce 2 commerce and are not riverside, +100% production of Bank.

SPI: No anarchy, +100% production of Temple.

ORG: -50% civic upkeep, +100% production of Lighthouse, Court house, Factory and Library.

AGG: Free C1 promotion on melee and gunpowder units, +100% production of Barracks, Drydock

PRO: Free CG1 promotion on archery and gunpowder units, +100% production of Granary and Walls.

[Merovech]

Did you forget to add aqueducts to the cheap expansive list, or was that done on purpose?

[Krill]

I'm dumb sometimes. Edited the previous post...

[SevenSpirits]

My opinions of these traits (in the context of other RBmod changes, of course). Numbers should be taken as relative value, and as approximations:

CRE: +2 cpt per city, +100% production of Theatre, Colosseum, Observatory.
145

EXP: +35% production of workers and work boats, +100% production of Grocer, Aqueducts and Harbour.
88

IMP: +100% GG production, +60% settler production, +100% production of Customhouses.
130

CHM: +2 happiness per city, +1 happiness per Broadcast tower, -25% XP per promotion.
125

PHI: +100% GP birth rate, +100% production of University.
137

IND: +50% wonder production. +100% production of Forge.
145

FIN: +1 commerce on tiles that produce 2 commerce and are not riverside, +100% production of Bank.
130

SPI: No anarchy, +100% production of Temple.
180

ORG: -50% civic upkeep, +100% production of Lighthouse, Court house, Factory and Library.
235

AGG: Free C1 promotion on melee and gunpowder units, +100% production of Barracks, Drydock
75

PRO: Free CG1 promotion on archery and gunpowder units, +100% production of Granary and Walls.
180

[Commodore]

Are there coastal tiles? Permanent Colossus still comes in first, IMO. Going by the gut of "most like to have":
Fin
Org
Spi
Pro
Phi
Cre
Chm
Imp
Ind
Exp
Agg

Exp up one, Cre up one(ish, the Phi/Cre/Chm/Imp/Ind cluster is almost equal to me)
But all much closer than base, still.

[pindicator]

Do we want every trait to have an early and later benefit?
If so then give CRE and EXP those suggested additions and IND may need some kind of late-game boost. If not and we instead rely on the player to mix and match based on what part of the game then we should add the missing combinations of traits as new leaders

[Bigger]

Are there coastal tiles? Permanent Colossus still comes in first, IMO. Going by the gut of "most like to have":
Fin
Org
Spi
Pro
Phi
Cre
Chm
Imp
Ind
Exp
Agg

Exp up one, Cre up one(ish, the Phi/Cre/Chm/Imp/Ind cluster is almost equal to me)
But all much closer than base, still.

you're crazy. You just destroyed a FIN civ in pb8 with PRO, not sure why you would rank Fin so high. The only think right about your list is putting Agg at the bottom (and its still far at the bottom, despite barracks giving culture. don't know how to fix that).

Do we want every trait to have an early and later benefit?
If so then give CRE and EXP those suggested additions and IND may need some kind of late-game boost. If not and we instead rely on the player to mix and match based on what part of the game then we should add the missing combinations of traits as new leaders

IND is fine. its still very good - its just still dependent on how many other IND civs there are (but that can be said of some other traits too, so what). agg is the only one that really needs a boost.

my rank:
SPI
ORG
PRO

everything else roughly equal-
IND
EXP
IMP
CHA
PHI
FIN
CRE


and obviously Agg much worse than the group. I'm not a fan of CRE even in BTS, though, so taking away the library killed it for me - take that for whats its worth.

[pindicator]

Bigger, there's more to it than just that he was able to take a FIN civ's cties. That said, FIN as #1 just tells me Commodore hasn't had to play as FIN yet. I'd rank SPI and ORG at the top - haven't got enough look at PRO to tell if it belongs up there as well. But i do think the rest are close enough to need no major changes, except AGG.