RB Pitboss #1 Spoilers - Joai of the Incans - Krill/Memphus

[Krill]

Hi ruff, TDA,

Congratulations on meeting my warrior! I've been searching far and wide to meet you.

I know this seems fast, but I would like to offer a tech pact to you, along with an NAP. I also need to ask you to communicate a very important peice of infomation to as many other people as you possibly can. If you could send the following paragraphs from me to Shadyforce, dsplaisted, mh and Kodii, and Imhotep, please?

You may have heard that I stole a worker of sunrise, and that would be true. I stole what I believe to be sunrises only worker, and then deleted it, because sunrise has managed to negotiate a 5 player tech aliance (called the UTA, or Uber Tech Alliance). The tech ring consists of sunrise, regoarrarr, the Lins, ZPV and Broker33, and they are currenty less than 15 turns away from researching Alphabet, Maths, Monarchy, HBR and IW. As far as I can tell, they are also well protected, with each player only having 1 flank not covered by a none UTA player (for instance, I have both sunrise and the Lins facing me, which is why I had to criple sunrise before I got 2v1'd). At the speed they are teching they should be at Construction, MC, Calendar, CoL and Currency by t100, easy, then stacks of war elephants, cats and HA are going to roll over us, unless they try it earlier with just HA (which ZPV may be thinking of, because his UU will be much too weak to use with WE).

The rest of us need to setup a counter alliance, and fast, to withstand the tech pressure we'll be facing.

(Finish).

I'll be in here most of the day, and on MSN, if you want to chat with me.

Email I sent. Yeah, it's not exactly pretty, but I just woke up, and if ruff doesn't see the danger then we're all screwed anyway.

[Krill]

Reply from Ruf and my reply to that. I also forwarded the email sunrise sent me about the UTA existing (just how stupid was sending that email?)

I was tempted to write an opening sentence saying I'll cram a stack of HA down ruffs' throat if he doesn't drop the roleplay, but end of the day I'm not going to give away even a hint I'm heading for HBR until it's too late, due to the possibility of someone passinghte infomation on to Dreylin. I also don't want to appear threatening, I need to appear as if I'm already fighting against the unholy alliance of the UTA (aka explain the worker grab/steal), otherwise I will just end up looking like a jerk.

We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. Your culture will adapt to service ours. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.

Standard hail silliness over . I've forwarded the paragraph in question on to the people you mentioned. How do you know about the UTA? This is bullshit, isn't it. You just want us to all buddy up and join your little collective?

Thank you for forwarding the paragraph.

And nope, not bullshit. Dreylin and sunrise were the first teams I met, and I tried to line up tech trades. They constantly refused any trades, for Maths, Alphabet, HBR, IW and MC, even at beaker deficits. Then they sent a message, which I'll forward to you as soon as thie email is written and sent to you.

I know about it because I was pushy and asked questions, and they wanted to stay on good terms with me so explained why thy were refusing tech trades, and NAPs (well, except sunrise, I have an NAP with him atm, signed after the worker grab).

I don't have a collective. You are the first non-UTA player I have met in game. Check F4 ingame if you want, you'll see just how true it is. I'm trying to set up an alliance, but you are the controlling influence, you control my access to the other players, so in effect you are the one settling up a clique. And with aggressive praetorians, threatening death or an alliance should be pretty fun, no?

But yeah, setting up a 6 way, tech sharing, mutual protection, alliance is something that I want all of us to do. That should make the game last a little longer, at least for our side.

[Krill]

It also looks like Dreylin and regoarrarr are going to go for a double choke...with 3 warriors?!

I've been stockpiling quechua just to deal with this eventuality, so I have 2 Quechua that can deal with regoarrarrs' warrior to the south of DD, one of them with shock, and I have placed 1 quechua on a hill forcing the 2 warrior stack either onto the flatlands, where I will slaughter them (minimum 4 quechua will be able to attack) or force them to roam south through the forests, where chariots will destroy them and other quechua will block them.

Ah, and the really good thing? I can use this as diplomatic spin to show just close the UTA are

Oh, they just waited far too long to get there act together and choke me with warriors, now they need to be bringing up archers, chariots and spears to do some real damage.

Message sent to Dreylin and regoarrarr, under the subject Choke? LOL:

Afternoon gentlemen,

I can see your warriors, moving into fairly offensive positions. Move them back or lose them, and I already have the units to kill them, in place and waiting.

Actually, on that note, move them in. I could do with the experience for my units.

Krill

[Krill]

Pictures for the spectators.

In the top picture, there are 2 quechuas capable of reach AA next turn, and at the end of next turn, AA can build another quechua if need be, or an archer. Probably be a quechua so it can go straight onto chariots afterwards.

In the bottom picture, there is one worker underneath each quechua. If regoarrar moves around, I can move the eastern most quechua NW to defend the city, and if he wants to wander off...horses are hooked in 2 turns, so I can chop a chariot out of DD, and slave them out of AA/BB/CC from t70 (which is the ultimate last resort, I don't want to slave this early, and for anything less than HA).

So, I think the Incans have to have been the best pick ever. Originally I was a little miffed with the terrace, it seemed so slow (but part of that is down to the start. Fish, or irrigated corn? billions of grasslands, or billions of coastal tiles and hills?)

Yeah Sullla, looking right at you, mate. I take it the irrigated corn was a mistake?

But it tuns out that both quechua and terraces have given me the exact edge needed from the Aggressive and Creative traits, all that was needed to gain a tactical edge.

TBH, I don't think I'd attack in this situation. regoarrarr must be close to circumnavigating the world, and needs to keep his units alive for that, so those warriors are much more valuble than they first appear, and if he refuses to choke...what can 1 warior do to me? Piddly squat.

[Krill]

6:42 PM me: So, going to go for hte choke?
7 minutes
6:50 PM Dan: hey
i was in the middle of writing to you
6:51 PM me: np
I can wait for the email if you want
Dan: yeah let me finish it off and then sen dit
me: or lack of an email, if you want to continue forward
Dan: and then we can chat
me: cool
Dan: gimme a few - in the middle of something
but hopefully within 10-15 mins
9 minutes
7:01 PM Dan: okay
email sent
7:02 PM me: interestingly enough
Dreylin and you have a warrior on the same tile
Dan: yeah he just told me that
he moved there after i moved and ended turn this morning
7:03 PM me: and Dreylin has explored past me, and brought the warrior back
c'mon
Simle question
*simple
And I don;t need the answer
are you going to choke
or not
7:04 PM Dan: the question is
okay
me: if you move back, no harm
Dan: so, a few clarifying questions
and i really am not trying to be overly dense, or newbish, or rules-lawyery
(really!)
7:05 PM would you be happy if i moved anywhere outside your borders?
or are there particular spots that you would not want me to move
me: preferably to me, stay 1 tile away from the borders.
7:06 PM But I have nothing to offer for that
so I don;t expect you to follow it
Dan: well
i'm not in front of a map right now
so let me state what i believe the situation to be
i have a warrior near yoru capital (i think)
he's currently on your border?
7:07 PM me: on a forest hill tile
Dan: i think i can go 2 tiles SE following your borders
and then i will be blocked by water
is that right?
me: yeah
you going for circumnavigation, right?
7:08 PM Dan: i wondered if you would ask me about that
me: well
it's pretty obvious
Dan: and worried about my reply
if i say i am, will that make you more likely to kill my warriors so i don't get it?
me: Well I'm not going to get
but I can stop you getting it
7:09 PM so that is a bargaining chip
Dan: well, at least delay me / worsen my odds
me: well
you have 2 warriors
Dan: i do have 1 other unit that is in position to help out on that
that is not near you
me: I wonder what happened to the guys with scouts
Dan: yeah i know
me: so you know more than me on the cost/benefit side
7:10 PM I suppose I could offer you OB
Dan: yeah i was going to ask about that
but i aws just reminded that i am late for a 2:00 mtg
will you be around in 50 mins?
me: yup
on holiday
Dan: k
see you then
me: cya
54 minutes
8:05 PM me: ok back now
sorry, was afk booking a table at the local pub, for a dinner tomorrow
6 minutes
8:11 PM Dan: okay i'm back
8:13 PM me: cool
hope they didn;t chastise you for being late
Dan: heh
8:14 PM no
it was worse
i was supposed to run the meeting
:-D
me: ouch
Dan: guess scheduling a meeting on the first day back from vacation is not a good idea
but it was okay - just 2 other people who are friends of mine
me: ah, cool
Dan: i have about 10-15 mins before i have to pick up my son (it is take your kid to work day today here)
8:15 PM so we were talking about OBs
8:16 PM me: You have the advantage of me atm
currently quite toasted
but hey, whatever
You wanted OB, right?
I have no advantage from an OB
so basically Iwant paying
8:17 PM Dan: right - i seemed to remember that from the sancta game
that you were generally unwilling to sign obs just because
me: You be willing to trade a cheap tech, once you get Alpha (t80ish, according to the Lins) for OB?
Oh yeah
8:18 PM Just because is fine, it has diplomatic currency
but I don;t see us having alot to talk about in 50 turns
Dan: well, judging from past behavior, should i ask whether or not you've killed my warriors before i agree to OBs
me: Fiar enough
I did think about it
but no
both warriors are still alive
8:19 PM Eh
I seem to have a reputation for understanding the tactical situation
8:20 PM I'd be leting myself down if I didn't consider it
Basically I'm willing to give OB now
8:21 PM If you email me right now accepting that you will gift me Sailing, or masonry, or meditation, or polytheism
Well
I'll accept more expensive techs as well
I just doubt you'd accept that
Dan: i wouldn't say you're that far off
8:22 PM so here's a thought, in the interest of furthering peaceful actions
i worry that any response i make will lead you to think i have non-peaceful intentions
and cause you to kill my warriors
me: afk 3 minutes
Dan: that you will either take the wrong way
or it will get lost in translation
and you'll kill them before i can move them
ok
8:24 PM me: back
Sorry dude
8:25 PM but I already know that you have non peaceful intentions
you shut the door in my face
you threw me out from the civilised world
and forced me to look elsewhere for tech trades
That is the most aggressive thing you can do in an FFA
8:26 PM Dan: again i think we are misunderstanding each other
me: Oh not really.
I think you misunderstand your own actions
Dan: that could very well be
i don't claim to be a civ expert
8:27 PM me: tbh
I think you think you are the closest to getting crcumnavigation
and OB from myself would virtually garuntee it to you
now what advatnage is circumnavigation?
+1 mp on al boats?
hook up that fish 1 turn sooner?
8:28 PM being able to threaten any enemy naval stack and keep your units in complete safety?
Dan: so what makes you think that i am the closest?
me: deflection
but I'll answer anyway
8:29 PM Dan: hold on - gotta go get my son - back in 5 mins (and i'm really not trying to deflect or be devious)
me: I know exactly how far apart your units are/
I know just how close everyone else has to be to get circum
so I know all the maths
8:30 PM and with MEmphus doing some calcs for me?
You really want to try and second guess me?
9 minutes
8:39 PM Dan: no
just curious
8:40 PM me: asnyother questions?
8:41 PM Dan: does my signing OB with you give you any safety?
(this is just a civ mechanics question)
8:42 PM like 10 turns peace?
brb
me: no, I get no advantage from OB
Dan: back
8:43 PM so i could sign OBs and then attack the next turn?
that doesn't seem right
me: yes
Dan: (not tha ti'm planning on doing htat)
me: that's how it goes
Dan: ok
me: eh
I don't hold the fact that you considered it against you
8:44 PM Dan: i didn't even really consider it
me: that would be hypocritical of me
Dan: i mean i did consider swiping your worker
but i am sure that you covered it
and i am (truly!) glad that you did
to remove the temptation
me: ah
Dan: i doubt that i would have done it
me: the fact that you considered it shows that you understand hte tctica; game
8:45 PM ffs
my typing is going to go downhill
Dan:
me: for that I cna only apologise
and drink more beer
Dan: so do you understand what i mean about not wanting to say something that will cause you to attack my warriors?
me: Oh I understand
Dan: any thoughts on that?
or is that a sword that you want to hold over me as a bargaining chip?
8:46 PM (and i can udnerstand if it is)
me: Well I know my troop positions
and I know where 2 or your warriors are
I know just how dangerous to me they are
8:47 PM nd I know what I have to do to kill them if I decide I should do after this chat
realistically the only way for you to be 100% sure that both your units will live to see the next turn is to agree to trade me sailing for OB
because what treaties do we have right now?
8:48 PM And what treaties are we likely to have in the next 2 turns?
Dan: well i have an email from you offering an NAP till T120 that has never been rescinded :-D
me: an offer is not an agreement
Dan: so i could just quick-like accept that
me: sure you could
8:49 PM but you don;t know the lay of the land between your warriors
you don;t know wether or not you can get circumnavigation without OB
that's a big gamble to take
especially when I know just how screwed you are if you don;t accept OB
Dan: i'm more worried about you killing one or both of my warriors
8:50 PM me: shrug
Dan:
me: the offer of NAP until t120 is still there
5 minutes
8:55 PM Dan: so, assuming your offer to give one of the other techs you listed besides sailing (masonry, med or poly) is still in place, i accept, with the condition that you do not attack either of my warriors for 10 turns
8:56 PM me: Let's go one step further.
10 turn NAP
cancelable with 5 turns notice
I fully exect it to be cancelled in 5 turns
8:57 PM actually I'l rephrase that
I fully expect you to cancel it with 5 turns to go
because I won't
basically the problem with what you stated,
8:58 PM is that I could attack your unit with an archer, chariot, axe, spear, HA or sword
eh
stupid alcohol
damaging my synapses
Dan: it does tend to do that....

me: The way you phrased that means that you can still declare war
and try to choke me
8:59 PM and I'm not allowed to attack
Dan: true
me: which is an automatic no on my part
Dan: of course, now you are getting something out of it
whereas before when you were getting nothing you wanted a tech
now you are getting something
9:00 PM me: Then it's an automatic no
I am not going to agree to not attack your units for 10 turns
Dan: no i understand that
me: and still make it permissable according to that treaty for you to declare war and choke
Dan: oh i totally understand
i just meant that you were only willing to offer OB for a tech, because it didn't get you anything
9:01 PM but now if we have a mutual NAP, then you are getting something
(i won't be choking you for the duration of the NAP)
or are the OBs not included in the NAP
me: OK
I thin kthe problem is with the phrasing
I can agree to not attack either of your warriors for 10 turns
9:02 PM provided that you agree to not cancel the OB for 10 turns
along with the cheap tech thing
Dan: (which is essentially an NAP, right)
me: 6 and 2 3s
9:03 PM Dan: right
me: Well
I'd agree to not attack your warriors provided that a no more than those two warriors entered my land
and if you declared war treaty is void etc
9:04 PM oh
and declaring war while units are inside my borders teleports the warriors
Dan: right
i did know that
me: whic coutns as a move
Dan: ah interesting
i did not know that
me: so the double move rule would then aply to them
9:05 PM it gives me 9 hours to move and potect units
So
Dan: so it sounds like we're on teh same page as far as the offer on the table
let's call it a 10 turn nap with 5 turn cancellation
9:06 PM and obs
me: You're a diploguy
write the treaty
all 2-3 clauses of it
and email it
9:07 PM Dan: well, i'm still back to the payment
are you still wanting a cheap tech, now that you are getting something out of it?
i felt it made sense when you weren't getting any security out of it
but now you are
you're getting a 5 turn notice if i decide to choke you
me: not really
I expect you to cancel in 5 turns
9:08 PM simply to keep greater tactical options available to you
Dan: i think you may be surprised but i grant that it is possible
but that's still 10 turns that you have to prepare
9:09 PM me: eh
I am already prepared
I'm giving you 10 turns to get stuff in range
9:10 PM while I agree to not kill the current units
which I could do
Dan: so you still feel a cheap tech is fair?
me: as you are already scared of
cheap tech
Dan: yeah but i'm just a wimp
i'm easily scared :-D
me: eh
don't believe that for minute
9:11 PM cheap tech is basically fair
what is 90-150 beakers to you?
considering you are getting so many in a trade in less than 15 turns?
don't be stingy
9:12 PM Dan: heh
okay i accept for one of those 4 techs, or a tech of higher value
sailing masonry, med or poly
me: col
*cool
Dan: i have to go right now but i will send out an email this evening (my time)
i assume you will not kill my warriors in the meantime?
me: cool
yup
9:13 PM I won;t offer the OB, or accept, until I havethe email
but that shouldn't keep your warriors for long, only a few hours
Memphus also get copies of hte email
and should be off work in 3 hours easy
9:14 PM so he can accpet etc
9:15 PM Dan: k
bye

Still waiting on the email...thoughts if/when I receive it.

Note: I've been drinking for most of today, so this entire chat was held while drunk.

[Krill]

Met Shadyforce. He is going for alphabet, so I think I can trade for that and IW...just m-h, Imhotep and dsplaisted to go...oh, and just a thought, what could we oracle, with an industrius civ...

me: sorry
shadyforce: I'm glad you got word out because I don't think any of us suspected it...
me: internet just got screwed by me
*got screwed for me
damn
on holiday
not exactly taking it easy with teh drink
shadyforce: hehe
me: sorry if I don;t seem entirely...there
shadyforce: no worries, that's hat holidays are for
me: OK
I just checked the chat logs
ok, this is what I sent that didn't get through
because I can get 2v1'd easily
yeah
I am on a flank
next to sunrise and the Lins
according to infomation given to me by broker prior to the email saying the UTA existsed
The UTA is basically protected on every flank
each team has 1 flank to expand into
Sunrise and Dreylin expand through me
so I can geat 2v1'd
I had to take the worker to slow sunrise down
because they can reach construction by t100 easy
for war eles, cats
Sent at 12:42 AM on Friday
shadyforce: I suspect that regoarrarr can get double-teamed by myself and Imhotep
me: It's alot to swallow so quickly
That would be good
shadyforce: I'm not sure how far imho is from India
but at least we can do something to them
Sent at 12:44 AM on Friday
me: Alot depends on the politics
I'm sory to go into it so quickly, but...
This game is an FFA
but because of the factions it is very much a 1v1 a la an MP game
those of us on the fronts need to defend, but we can't afford to spend too much on an attack, or we wil lose long term
this is a problem for every one though
but defence is very important
shadyforce: some of us, including me and you, are more vulnerabel to being double-teamed than others
but I think that the non-UTA people are willing to form a rival allaince
or at least somewhat co-ordinate techs
I don't know how we resist the direct military threat to you though, if you have no friendly neighbours nearby
me: I'l be OK
I'm no asking that everyne defend me
*not
I can handle a 2v1, and make it too costly for anyone else to attack me
especialy with my land
The tech is the most important thing, IMO
at leats atm
btw
who are you next to?
shadyforce: I'm beside rego and zpv
me: oh
ok
you havea real problem
you need to be very careful with ZPV
he has numidian Cav
which means the only way you can defend is with HA, right?
not with sears
*spears
if a tech alliance is set up
you need to get HBR
shadyforce: well, lucky I have horse even if I don't have copper then so
me: They'll be fine then
I'm very happy if a counter alliance can be set up
I have a quechua north of regoarrarr
but woody 2
shadyforce: what can you tell me about trhe territory to the north of his capital?
me: so once I go around him I can try to make contact with as many people as possible
I've only uncovered a bit
ie dozen tiles
grasslands
coast
no food iirc
few grass hills
shadyforce: north-east of rego is Imhotep... somewhere, I haven't seen his culture so can only give vague directions
me: Thanks!
I'll try to meet him then go south
shadyforce: you're a long way from everyone else though
me: I think I have a good bit of the north mapped
luckily I have another quechua
but only a 1 mover
shadyforce: ah, someone mentioned that,another quecha near ruff?
me: yeah
met ruff about 8 tiles from my land, as th crow flies
SW
shadyforce: ok, well I don't know ruff's neighbourhood at all so can't give you any directions for that dude
me: np
Just wondering
but do you know anyone going for alphabet?
shadyforce: me
me: my understanding is that the lins will get it around t80
cool
shadyforce: I'll have it by then too
me: that mate
is awesome news
I can offer you HBR and archery for it
shadyforce: worry not my Incan friend
I have archery.. you'll have HBR by then?
me: easily
can start research into something else if need be
shadyforce: good stuff
me: I'm lucky that I just got my 5th city this turn
shadyforce: Imp/Exp sure helps early growth
me: so I'm in a position to ride out an chokes, attacks from the UTA
yeah
unfortunately
because this game has fractionated so quickly
I'm going to end up giving most of my advatnage back to whoever lets me into an alliance
either via uneven trades
or by building more units to attack/defend with
but whateve
r
more fun for me whe nthe attack arrives
shadyforce: well, personally I'm just glad this game hasn't turned into a big lovefest
I may be in danger,but it is surely an interesting game
me: eh
11 players
5 player alliance
possible 6 player alliance
that's as big a lovefest one can get in this size game
shadyforce: you're a big multiplayer, aren't you? 5 v 5 is more familiar territory for you I imagine
me: eh
I used to be a ladder player
I am a demogamer
join SANCTA if you want to read up on why some people seems to be scared of me/Memphus, in the CFC MTDG
I'm very used to having to understand new tactical experiences
shadyforce: I've heard you two are kicking ass alright
me: ah
Wed disagree
but that's beside the point, to some extent
this is a fun game
at least
it is now I have met people
shadyforce: yeah, must have been frustrating until recently
me: Yup
as you said
we are kinda tucked in a corner
Sent at 1:06 AM on Friday
shadyforce: I better go finish my turn then go to bed, late here
me: ditto, 1 am
if I send you an email, would you forward it to hte 4 other players?
shadyforce: sure
me: thank you
Sent at 1:08 AM on Friday
me: quick question
when do you see yourself getting alphabet?
because if "our" alliance could get oracle...
something to think about...
especially with 6 teams teching together
shadyforce: I'll need to see if anyone has the religious techs
but yeah, worth seeing what we can get from it

[Krill]

With regoarrarr

It is now T68. Krill and regoarrarr agree on a 10 turn NAP (until and including T78). This can be canceled any time from T73 on, with a 5 turn cooling down period. For example, if one of us gives notice on T75, the NAP will run out on T80 and attacks may commence on T81. Krill and regoarrarr will also sign open borders, which can be canceled in concert with the NAP. Cancel one, cancel both, with the same cooling periods.

Krill will not attempt to circumnavigate before T78, nor mention that regoarrarr might be close to circumnavigating to any other teams before T78 (or regoarrarr circumnavigates, whichever comes first)

In exchange, regoarrarr will give Krill one of the following 4 techs (Sailing, Meditation, Polytheism, Masonry), or a larger tech, to be decided by regoarrarr, as soon as tech trading between them is possible. Krill agrees to not trade for any of those 4 techs before T85.

Agreed by regoarrarr
--
Agreed by Krill

So, I just let regoarrarr scout me out...he's probably looking forward to giving the info to Dreylin for when he can attack, but I think he has the timescale all wrong.

Also, something he doesn't know...there is no circumnavigation bonus on the lakes mapscript (which I'm 90% sure this is). So if he refuses to give the tech in the next 18 turns, I have some more diplomatic currency to throw against him. And if he does, I get a cheap tech if the counter alliance goes down the drain.

But I'm more hopeful now, met 2 of the non UTA members, leaves me with 3 to go, dsplaisted, Imhotep and m-h, and I have the woody 2 quechua that should be able to meet imhotep in about 10 turns, then head south. I also have the western quechua that is currently healing, and 3/5 XP, so not too far from woody 2, provided I can find some barb warriors or archers.

Shady is going for alphabet, and ruff will almost certainly have IW, so if I can get those in a trade, I'm solid on defense, behind DD on the shoke point. Just Maths and Monarchy to go...and MC as the sixth tech.

It has to be said though that letting players pass messages via third parties is a little iffy. I've had to resort to doing it to form the counter alliance, but only because the UTA started it in the first place. It has the same effect as allowing teams to talk to each other out of the game prior to contact, requiring just a little trust, which compared to the payoff is a no brainer. I think in future, large games, that contact via third parties needs to be stopped, but that has all sorts of problems...

[Krill]

And the pace quickens...really need to get a move on with finding the remaining civs...

I think the UTA is going to rue the day they pissed me off.

But I do need to put together plans in case the new counter alliance wants me to sod off, find some way to keep up in tech aka the mercenary approach. I'd also have to scrub the attack on Dreylin; I'd have to offer to do that for tech but I have 5 cities, and I could reach 8 within the next 10 turns if I tried...

12:05 AM Shadyforce: hi, you there?
12:06 AM me: yup
Shadyforce: I have a micro question
me: ure. np
Shadyforce: if I whip a granary with my foodbox pretty much full, do I get half the box next turn?
me: no
food is calculated before hammers
12:07 AM so food is added to the food bar
then the granary is completed
then the next turn food starts accumulating in the granary
Shadyforce: ok thanks
me: the ideal time to complete the granary is when the food bar is exactly half full after the granary completes
12:08 AM because that lets the granary store exactly the maximum food before growth
Shadyforce: yeah, I heard that rule of thumb alright, wasn't sure exactly how it worked though
me: col
*cool
12:09 AM it's not too hard to figure out once you know how it works
Shadyforce: thanks for your help
me: np
any news on the diplomacy front?
12:10 AM Shadyforce: not a lot
a few emails back and forth
12:11 AM me: So, the rest of you do think the UTA is real? One of the things I was wondering abou was whether Id be believed...
Shadyforce: I think ppl are starting to take thread seriously though, which I guess is a positive
me: great news
12:12 AM Shadyforce: I thought you might have been a bit paranoid about sunrise/lin, but no your not, a combined attack on you is likely at some point in the future
based on chat with Lin
me: Well, tactically it's the only option...and I did just really piss off sunrise
Shadyforce: (don't tell anyone I told you)
12:13 AM me: np
secret is safe with me
12:14 AM We're already getting ready to deal with an attack.
Vultures aren't pretty
Shadyforce: do you think one is imminent?
me: depends
Shadyforce: I would have thought them teching to construction more likely
12:15 AM me: a choke with warriors, possibly, but now I doubt it, mainly because we can deal with it very easily
a smal amount of vultures/spears, possibly
depends on what Dreylin wants to do, he could easily do it
but we could also easily deal with it
Shadyforce: I saw yoyu let rego open borders to walk through your territory... is that wise? he might use it to gather intel on your land
12:16 AM me: Depends, you have seen my front city
that is where they will attack
12:17 AM if I kill them there...no amount of info on my back cities will help them
Shadyforce: did you know about the barb city 9 south of demon dirt?
12:18 AM me: Yeah, just found it a few turns ago.
it'll be useful
Dreylin has to go past it to attack me
12:19 AM and with vultures...
that city will fall before he attacks me
free sentry net
Shadyforce:
my WB is just coming up to Lin city from the south
12:20 AM me: interesting...
so, I always thought this was a lakes map...
Shadyforce: it's not on the coast I'm exploring though, I can only see edge of culture
me: but that is an ocean?
Shadyforce: everywhere is coast... but some are just big salt water lakes
me: cool
12:21 AM Shadyforce: weird snaky continents map
me: looks decent
12:22 AM Just wondering about tech a bit, but are you willing to for HBR?
*to trade
12:23 AM Shadyforce: I have everything except religious techs, take your pick
alpha is probably most useful to you if you can get contact with enough others to get decent techs off them
12:24 AM me: I think I can get contact with everyone else
I know I'm way out of the loop atm
Shadyforce: no tech brokering will be an abstacle for you
me: meh
Shadyforce: *obstacle
12:25 AM me: Simply put, alot depends on what hapens with a counter alliance
12:26 AM if I can join you all in a large alliance then I don't mind waiting to get tech trades, and comunicating with everyone else via you and/or ruff
I don't expect anyone to help me on defense, either
12:28 AM Shadyforce: what techs do you actually need though?
12:29 AM me: Depends.
I'll need all military techs to defend properly
Shadyforce: do you have IW?
me: no
12:30 AM Shadyforce: do you have sailing? is there an amphibious threar?
me: I'll need sailing eventually
around t100 at a guess
but
12:31 AM that is the time I suspect the UTA gets the MC
so I'd need MC to defend in a naval battle for trireme
I'll also need construction to defend against Elesphants
12:32 AM around t100 as well
Realistically, I am in an interesting position
because I can be a thorn in the UTAs side
12:33 AM Shadyforce: UTA will have MC before T100
me: Really?
Shadyforce: I believe ZPV is on it now
me: hmmm
interesting
12:34 AM I would have thought he would get HBR first
for his UU
but that he could get quickly
12:36 AM Shadyforce: it could be misinformation designed to throw me off guard
but it could be he isn't planning a HA rush and is goign for metal casting
either way, I wouldn't be too sure UTa are not going for MC relatively early
me: True
but tbh
12:37 AM I would be more scared about getting hit by Numids than by a trireme choke and galleys dropping off units
that is alot of hammers in boats
Shadyforce: do HA's obsolete my immortals?
me: er
Numids can only be defended against with HA
12:38 AM spears aren't good enough
a couple of spears are good
forted in a city
with walls with archers
but to really kill a numid stack you have to attack it with HA
it's the better strength of the HA that makes it
12:40 AM Shadyforce: I understand that... but I'm still curious can I still build immortal after HBR
me: Eles work as well
but they are out of hte time frame
oh sorry
no
chariots are obseleted by knights
you can alwasy build chariots and HA together
12:41 AM until you can build knights
Shadyforce: ignoring the numid threat, is a HA worth the extra 20 hammers?
12:42 AM say I was rushing rego or zpv pre-HBR, would I be better sticking to immortals?
me: HA are better against spears
so you'd be best getting a couple of HA
but 50% immortals is solid
they tear through everything
apart from the spears
12:43 AM And HA do a sinificant amount of damage to tthe spears
Shadyforce: funnily enough, I suspect ZPV and rego are on 100% spears and 0% archers since they found they were next to persia
me: yup
12:44 AM You can get 2v1'd fairly easily
Shadyforce: should have gone with egypt
me: nah
Persia is OK
12:48 AM Shadyforce: did you say you had an email you wanted me to pass on the rest?
me: I was wondering if you would mid passing one along, I haven't actually written anything yet
tbh I'm not sure what else I could say
12:49 AM I don;t know if m-h, dsplaisted or Imhotep have any questions for me
12:50 AM Shadyforce: they haven't asked me anything to ask you... the main reaction was whether the UTA was for real or not
(there was early discussion about whether Ruff was inventing a message pretending it was from you as well, hehe)
12:51 AM me: haha
Shadyforce: but as I said, I think most consider the threat real now,so it's just how much they are willing to co-operate with each other
me: that could have been hilarious if we hadn't met for an alternative route
that's a really fun thing to find out
12:53 AM Shadyforce: is there anything that might make the UTA suspect that a counter-alliance is being formed?
eg. when they rejected you, you didn't say: "screw you b*stards, I'll form a group with the rest and get my own back!!"
12:54 AM me: nah
I was suprised that they even admitted to me that they had an alliance
then again
I did confront regoarrarr in chat about it
but no, I said nothing like that
not giving up the element of suprise
12:55 AM Shadyforce: where is broker in relation to you?
12:56 AM me: my understanding is he he directly south of Dreylin
I am right up in the north
he is in the same position but in the south
atleast, according to what broker told me prior to admitting hte existence of the UTA
12:57 AM Shadyforce: I wonder which non-UTA are near him
me: whoever it is has an easy ride
he doesn;t have many cities

[athlete4life10]

Having not heard of the Krill/Memphus team prior to this pitboss game (I suppose you could say I have my head in the sand) it's been an absolute pleasure to follow your thread and to see how you've played the game so far. It would appear your reputation has been well earned!

I'm very interested to watch the military part of your game. One thing I've always wondered is how do you decide whether to keep or raze a city (now that you can check inside before deciding I guess it's easier) but I'm assuming you're taking into consideration of defensibility and what not as well. Assuming you are remotely successful with your plans on the league of lin do you have any plans for their lands or will you just raze it all?

[Krill]

Burn it to the ground...it's too far to hold, and I don't think we are going to kill them. So they could just slave out massess of spears and a few vultures, and capture it back, albeit bloodily. Burning it to the ground means it is gone for ever.

The aim isn't so much to knock them out and grab their lands, and incorporating their population to service our own, more to make us the pre-eminent power in these parts so later on we can go conquering their population. That's the same reason we went for the worker steal off sunrise, it weakened him so relatively we become stronger, and later on we can kill him.

Originaly we were scared of a 2v1 against us with war eles, which we would have no way to defend against except more units...so destroying their production capacity was a necessity. Now though, with the possibility of the counter alliance, I'm wondering if building up is a better option, and playing defence at the choke point (or just past it for the horses/cows city). Looking at sunrises' stats, I'm not particulary impressed, as we have as many cities as Dreylin and sunrise combined, and can keep it that way for quite a while.