WW25 - Game Thread

[pindicator]

This is important- do people agree that it's likely we have two scum parties? If so i think Lewwyn needs to be re-evaluated. And then we have the question of why there was only one kill last night

Jowy- why zak?

[BRickAstley]

I feel like that's just an attempt to undermine my arguments on you.

Well obviously I don't think your arguments hold water. But I also think such a post review is easily used to build fake cases, and when done by villagers they're susceptible to confirmation bias.

Which is why I tried to look at it as objectively as possible, and as I admit in the runthrough you do have some good points which shouldnt be ignored, but the sum of it all points to wolf-like play.

[zakalwe]

This is important- do people agree that it's likely we have two scum parties? If so i think Lewwyn needs to be re-evaluated. And then we have the question of why there was only one kill last night

I think it's possible we have just one remaining scum party, and Azza was a loner. Maybe he couldn't even kill. If he could kill, then simultaneous kills would be the usual way to resolve things, and we're missing a kill, if Lewwyn is town.

We could also have two scum factions remaining, with two missing kills, or alternating kills. I don't know if this is more likely than the above. I think the theory of Azza being a loner fits best with Serdoa's off-hand description of the victory conditions.

[Jowy]

look at wolf night kill: rowain, ichabod.
do you see pattern? i didn't, at first. rowain was clear village and contribute a lot. ichabod did not contribute much and many still suspect him.
do they roll dice to decide who lynch? no. there must be reason.
consider this. zak in quicktopic with rowain. rowain good player with good instinct. zak gets rid of rowain to not get caught as wolf.
second day, lewwyn was first to call out zak. but he'd have protection. ichabod is another who felt strongly against zak, and ichabod was also against bunch of other people i suspect wolf; novice and gazglum. ichabod also call out zak on acting strange, which can be huge tell. wouldnt it be handy if we forget about it and theres no-one left to remind?
anyway both target not only tied to zak, who i suspect be head wolf pulling strings, but of course also good target in general.
well, they are good target if we assume ichabod was on right track. and i do assume that.


pindicator, im not familiar with two scum party mechanics. so hard to say. I do think both play against us, because ghoul dying raise sanity, and i think sanity tied to gameplay balance. If normal is 1 night kill, we had 2 kill in first night because lewwyn caught an enemy. if thats not case, then first night normal, wolf kill ghoul, ghoul kill villager, lewwyn make up huge elaborate lie, and second night hidden role protector protects one of us so only 1 kill happens. its obvious that first scenario seems more likely, but again i dont have the experience so judge for urself.

and i am voting zak because im convinced that zak-novice-gaz are wolf. everything just seem to match up. im looking at wolf or villager tells, reactions, connections, targets. its like solving a jigsaw puzzle, first you have pieces that you know where they fit, then you work from there. reason why i prefer zak first is because hes not even trying anymore. would only make jokes and sarcastic remarks at me earlier. now i made question to him and novice. novice answers, zak ignores. if he really somehow was villager, he sure as hell is digging our graves for us by acting like that.

[uberfish]

I don't know, I feel that being left in the dark about what roles people had, what the consequences of sanity are and whether Azza was a soloist or not is an anti-town setup I guess the intention was to cut down on the amount of metagaming, but instead it feels like scum just have an even large information advantage.

I'm actually not sure why people were so eager to give Lewwyn town cred for being tracked to Azza the dead ghoul in the first place, since he could still be a wolf?

[zakalwe]

Jowy, your assertion that Ichabod strongly suspected me is false. He voted for me for a while but retracted his vote once he read my reply, citing a misunderstanding. After that, he never said I was suspicious and tried to work with me hunting scum, as far as I can tell.

Ichabod did like Uber's case on Gazglum. But he also said it could just be scum making a very good case. (Still, the implication is that it's a compelling case.)

[novice]

BRick, did I understand correctly that you have some sort of vigilante power? I think you should claim your role and then Lewwyn can let us know if it fits with his role.

[BRickAstley]

I don't know, I feel that being left in the dark about what roles people had, what the consequences of sanity are and whether Azza was a soloist or not is an anti-town setup I guess the intention was to cut down on the amount of metagaming, but instead it feels like scum just have an even large information advantage.

I'm actually not sure why people were so eager to give Lewwyn town cred for being tracked to Azza the dead ghoul in the first place, since he could still be a wolf?

Part of the reason I feel that he's more likely to be a villager is that his description of how his role works fits very well in hand with what my role is, and that he indicated he suspected a similar role, before he had any clue that another such one existed. That seems something too precise to falsely claim.

[uberfish]

consider this. zak in quicktopic with rowain. rowain good player with good instinct. zak gets rid of rowain to not get caught as wolf.
second day, lewwyn was first to call out zak. but he'd have protection. ichabod is another who felt strongly against zak, and ichabod was also against bunch of other people i suspect wolf; novice and gazglum. ichabod also call out zak on acting strange, which can be huge tell. wouldnt it be handy if we forget about it and theres no-one left to remind?

Agree with this analysis.

I do think both play against us, because ghoul dying raise sanity, and i think sanity tied to gameplay balance.

Hmm where did you get the information that ghoul deaths raise sanity? if Serdoa posted something to that effect I missed it.

As far as sanity and gameplay balance goes, I don't know about deaths, but I do know from my role PM that night abilities can modify the sanity counter as a side effect. That's why I assumed that decreasing sanity would result in bad things happening for the village, and why Brick's claimed role is weird.

TBH, meta is the main thing that makes me unsure on Brick right now.

[zakalwe]

Also, you have consistently ignored any questions directed at you, so don't complain when I don't answer yours. When you asked me who I suspect other than Brick my vote was in fact on Gazglum.