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Diplomacy Correspondence Tracking thread

Sent to WPC:

RB Wrote:Beta,

We have already used 1/2 of our movement on that chariot, so we cannot attack it and then retreat onto your stack. However, we can actually do a little better than that. We have a 90% shot on one of their nasty redlined war elephants (C1/Shock) sitting in Warendorf, and we're going to take it. That thing would be really nasty if it promoted again and healed, so wish us luck smile.

Down south we will advance on the capital Webringen this turn, and we hope to attack it next turn. The western cities should fall easier after that, because they are concentrating their defense around their capital.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB
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From WPC:

WPC Wrote:We do wish you luck! How did it go?

Sent to WPC:

RB Wrote:Beta,

Really crummy luck frown. We lost at 90% odds!! Really irritating. All we had to do was win 2 rounds of combat... Checked the combat log, and we won the first then promptly lost 4 straight and that did it. Well, we weakened the elephant, but that's still some rotten luck. Sometimes the RNG is not very kind. Hopefully we burned up the bad dice roll in that region, and you guys will fare better.

We did move up next to Webringen as planned. They do not have enough to hold it right now, so unless they are hiding more units, it should fall as planned. We'll update you on how it looks once we can login again.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB
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Message from WPC detailing that they got owned pretty bad this turn.

WPC Wrote:Hi Scooter. Round two was not good for us. I made a fundamental error last turn. What I should have done was reduced the city to zero, and sit tight waiting for this turn. They brought a couple more units up, and with war elephants (all those promos they got from my poorly advised attacks of last turn), and horse archers, really decimated our stack. We lost 19 units. They lost an axe.
 
We fired off the weak catapults, which would probably lose by flank attack again next turn, consolidated our survivors and brought up reinforcements. The only positive news here is that thet have not pulled anything away from our front to face you, and everything in their two stacks is pretty beat up.
 
Also, coming up the road through the mountains, albeit strung out for a few turns back past Great Plains, are 25 units of our reinforcements.
 
My sense is that the Germans are going to take another run at us next turn, and keep their forces facing us. Hence we stood our ground rather than pull back. Their thinking is either:
 
1. They plan on defeating us and then turning south. With constant reinforcements, we should be able to keep them engaged continually around Warendorf.
 
or
 
2. They see the inevitable conclusion to the war (it must have been obvious to them on turn 150), and they are more miffed at us than you (especially given our earlier attack on them) and want us to pay dearly for this war. Which we are. frown  They may also believe that this allows you to get their cities and shuts us out. :dunno:
 
Anyways, congrats on your success in the south and taking the capitol. smile
 
Bummer about the RNG and your war chariot. We could have used one less war elephant facing us this turn.
 
Anyway - with the absence of your war chariot and its intel, the pics above give you the infoon the German units.
 
Strength (well a little less this turn) and honor!
 
Beta of WPC

[Image: T156_WPC_warendorf.jpg]

[Image: T156_WPC_north_of_warendorf.jpg]
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From CivFr:

CivFr Wrote:Hi,

The war goes on, CFC is going to have hard times.

What about your war? It seems that you are going to quickly eradicate the Incas. What are your plan toward Aztec and Ottomans afterwards?

Bye,

Mayans
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Sent to WPC:

RB Wrote:Beta,

Thanks for the update. We took the capital of Webringen this past turn, and we should be able to continue advancing. They had quite a few longbows on hills behind good cultural defenses so we lost quite a few maces, but we were able to preserve our catapults which is really helpful. We've lost over a dozen maces so far and several other assorted units, but we drafted really hard to make this happen, so we should be okay. However, I'm anticipating running into even more resistance. If you don't mind, could you let us know if they've hung around Warendorf or pulled back? We are trying to predict where their main stacks will be. I do see that they got another GG during their turn, so they must have done more killing.

Hang in there, they are quickly losing their ability to create more units, and we've been killing a lot (30ish units so far), so I don't think they have a lot more left.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB
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Brief chat with OT4E of CivPlayers:

Chat with CivPlayers Wrote:scooter
Hey OT4E, this is scooter. Quick question for you
hope you don't mind me asking, but what's the horse archer in former Incan lands up to? We don't have to be nervous do we? smile
OT4E
Hi. No u dont need we are just exploring
Msg me if something wrong happening there
I am not currently making turns
But i gave appropriate orders
We aint planning anything against u
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Sent to CivFr:

RB Wrote:Well I hope it's going well for you. We don't have any specific plans yet for after our current war beyond integrating the Incan cities and making them productive. We will continue to keep a strong military, just in case. Do you guys plan to attack any of your neighbors in the future? We might be interested in dividing someone's land with your team.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB
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Very brief chat with Apolyton. I just tried to make him aware that we knew it was them, but I don't see any value at all in being confrontational. Seriously, they did nothing wrong and getting angry is totally irrational. We then talked about NAPs again briefly. (Reminder, NAP with them ends at T170)

Chat with Apolyton Wrote:scooter
That's quite a trio of tech steals you guys just managed

MZ
we no steal smile

scooter
well, "acquired with spies" smile
Anyway, T170 is getting pretty close. Have you guys given any more thought to our NAP situation?  3:11 PM

MZ
our decision is that we will no extend our NAP. for explanation i will not deny that with some other nations we agreed not to do it to be able provide extra security

scooter
Hm okay. Thanks for the explanation
would you guys ever reconsider if we had a NAP that allowed you to cancel it if we attacked somebody?
I understand you want the chance to protect a neighbor if we invade them. but if we put in a clause that let you do that, it maintains the flexiblity while still giving us a mutual nap
(I'm not offering this concretely, I would have to talk with my team, Im just curious what your thoughts are)

MZ
I too would have to consider this

scooter
okay. as long as I know it's not a 100% "no" - I'll take it to my team to talk about. If they're interested, I'll send you a message sometime soon

MZ
sure, I too have to ask my team about it, it1s not 1005 no of course
100%*

scooter
okay well thanks. I'll get back to then

In summary:

1) Confirmed our suspicions that there is a few teams mutually agreeing to not take NAPs with us, which makes sense. I bet that's Apolyton, CivPlayers, and CFC
2) Floated the idea of a NAP with "out" clause that lets us consolidate in peace. He seems losely interested. We don't have to do this, but I think it's our best bet of getting a peaceful window for infrastructure
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Okay, I chatted with Yossarian. The log has a lot of idle chit-chat unrelated to this game in it, so I'm not going to paste the whole things, just the relevant stuff. One note: he did let us know that the marble will be back to T165-T175 as planned last time. I said okay fine and moved on. I'm only mentioning it because I'm supposed to pass this info on, but I swear if you guys even think about hijacking this thread into another marble argument.... lol

Anyway, couple stray things that came up before we talk about the relevant portion:

1) He noted that their turn player had a mixup and pillaged a cottage a turn or two ago. I actually didn't notice, and none of us did... He apologized and said it wouldn't happen again. I just said thanks, that we had decided not to make a fuss about it, but we'd appreciate it stopping. It's mainly noteworthy to me that they care about not pissing us off. It says a lot about how they feel their situation with CivFr is.

2) He reiterated that CivFr has been difficult. This was the line that made me smile:

Chat with CFC Wrote:YossarianLives
lol, well you're lucky you're not neighbors with them. The slow response times really make things harder when we're trying to figure out a good border arrangement
We've been trying to get peace with them. I don't know if they're just going with "war to the death" or what at this point. Maybe they're just trying to get a reputation so nobody attacks them in the next ISDG

I read this as CFC is genuinely concerned they may never get peace with CivFr. Great news for us. Even if they make peace, it'll likely be at terms that disadvantage CFC. Really happy to let them continue to poison their relationship with each other.

3) The main thing, and I'll paste the log for this:

Chat with CFC Wrote:YossarianLives
Getting back on topic a little bit... Are you having trouble extending NAPs with any other teams?
Have you guys thought at all about what a NAP with us might look like?
scooter
yeah I mean apolyton isn't super interested, but a quick glance at their power graph suggests there's 0 to be afraid of hah
with you guys - not so sure. the general consensus on our team is we aren't interested in war with you because that would be dumb for both of us, but we aren't super interested in paying for a NAP either
we figure it's not that hard to just park the bulk of our army at your border and defend it. cheaper too wink
I know a lot of your concern is that we might use a NAP to just run over other neighbors. would you guys be interested in a straight up NAP extension (no payment on it), but with a clause that if one of us starts a war, the other has an "out" on the NAP?
like, let's say we extend T175->T200. but then on T185 we declare on a neighbor and you're afraid we'll run over them. you'd have a window where you would have the choice to cancel and intervene if you felt it necessary
YossarianLives
Well that's an interesting idea. I'll have to take it back to the team. Part of the concern is that you'll keep rolling over other teams. The other part is that if you peacefully develop your current lands then nobody can surpass you anyways, especially with your new German lands
scooter
yeah I understand that. but I also figure you guys just added a bunch of nice land too and you'll want to consolidate
I figure if we both had 25T to do that, it might be a lot easier to ascertain what a fair deal is after that
and with the amount/quality of land you grabbed, you're a lot closer to us than maybe previously.
YossarianLives
Is this an idea you just had, or have you already discussed it with your team and they would accept it for sure?
scooter
it's an idea we talked about as a team and are generally interested in, but it's not yet a binding offer if that makes sense
but knowing your'e at least interested in discussing it - I'll take it back to them and we'll talk
we have a couple days until we can login anyway smile
YossarianLives
haha, yep
What turn are we at now, 159?
scooter
that sounds right
YossarianLives
Or still 158?
scooter
just finished 158
YossarianLives
Yeah, lots of time to figure out any details of a potential NAP, also
scooter
yeah and the turn pace is slow so 175 is realistically over a month away
YossarianLives
The funny thing is you're not even exagerrating
scooter
i know, it's crazy.
this last turn took what, 5 days?
YossarianLives
How much longer do the Germans realistically have in the game? It seems that they're putting up a better fight against WPC than they are against you
scooter
hard to predict for sure since they do still have a godo sized stack left
I don't think super long though. I'm pretty confident they'll be dead before our NAP with you expires
also, did you notice who the new tech leader is?
ottomans just stole 3 very expensive techs from us
YossarianLives
Ottomans, that's Poly, right?
Does that make them the tech leader?
I just finally started using our Alphabet info to catch up on who has which tech tongue
I thought CP had the big Espy lead
scooter
yep and yep
yeah it's apolyton
I'm wondering if it was a great spy bomb. haven't confirmed yet, but we can't login right now to confirm it
just going off event log and their massive scoreboard leap to 2nd place
YossarianLives
What, they're in second place now?!?!
Oh wow
scooter
yep, crazy right? http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=2416 4:39 PM
YossarianLives
Wouldn't the event log tell us if someone birthed a Great Spy?
scooter
I really don't remember off the top of my head if they've ever gotten one or what. they literally just did this an hour or two ago as you see on civstats so we haven't quite pieced it together yet
anyway, I gotta run. thanks for chatting
YossarianLives
Alright, talk to you later
scooter
we'll discuss the NAP thing a little more internally and I'll catch up with you soon

Bolded part is the key part. I'm betting the answer is yes, but what do you guys think of officially offering to CFC through T200? To spell it out so there's no confusion:

1) NAP until T200
2) No payments at all. Stone/Spices end on T175. I think we could be willing to give them a very minor gift or something (one resource maybe) since it does help us more, but we do NOT offer this up front. Only as a deal sweetener if absolutely necessary. And even then not anytime soon - wait them out for awhile.
3) If we declare war on somebody during that time, CFC would get a window (say, 2T) with which they could declare the NAP void. If CFC declares on someone during that time, we get the same option. Otherwise, no outs
4) The usual additional clauses which we'll want to tie up carefully.

WHat do you guys think? We have an opening here where they may want this for fear of CivFr. I like this because it's super unlikely we'll declare on anyone prior to T200 since we BADLY need to consolidate, and this gives us tons of flexibility. Thoughts?
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Quote:Hi Scooter et al.

We have taken it on the chin the last few turns, but have taken some German units with us. We also have some 25 new units about to descend on Warendorf.

It would seem that few of the Warendorf defenders have move south, which is a good thing.

Do you have any sense that that the civplayers may be supplying the Germans with units? We saw one of their horse archers in Warendorf last turn, but it seems to have exited the scene (and from what I can tell, was not gifted).

Here's a pic of the wounded units in Warendorf. Soon as they are at full strength, we should be moving back onto the field of battle. eek :D:

We are fairly convinced that their principal aim at this time is to stick it to us. So be it. We are stickable.

I see there was more success in the south. Congrats! What's the status down there?

Cheers! Beta of WPC

ps - in that picture - it is a single longbow and 3 workers on the hill til. The rest you can see.
I have finally decided to put down some cash and register a website. It is www.ruffhi.com. Now I remain free to move the hosting options without having to change the name of the site.

(October 22nd, 2014, 10:52)Caledorn Wrote: And ruff is officially banned from playing in my games as a reward for ruining my big surprise by posting silly and correct theories in the PB18 tech thread.
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