RB Pitboss #1 Spoilers - Joai of the Incans - Krill/Memphus

[LiPing]

Haha, well, I'm partial towards #2, but that's because it'd be the most interesting/instructive of the options for me to see attempted/executed well rather than for any strategical reason.

[zakalwe]

Maybe you could leverage your size by going for a religious economy?

Seeing some military action would be nice, but in general I'd just like to see you do whatever you think is best for winning the game. (War could be it of course).

[Swiss Pauli]

• Blasting through construction, whipping out as many WE and cats as possible (+up to 10 HA/chariots, half of which I already have) and smashing Kalin. I could feasibly take him out of the game IMO, getting at least as far as his capital without too many losses, maybe even killing him if I am fast enough.
  
  
• As above, but using a galley drop behind his front city of 8 HA as well. Requires extra slaving/forest chops.
  
  
• Hit sunrise. Harder to do, much further away, and no chance I can hold the land. Also risks counter attack by Kalin.
  
  
• Play builder and whip markets everywhere, I have every single happy resource that is doubled by markets. Currently trying to get people happy with us giving money to specific players, and every gifting tech to me. This would also allow me to whip harder later on...and expand more.

So, thoughts?

1. Seems a good - if obvious - plan.

2. Can you sneak your galley past The Lins' front city? If so, you can run riot in his backlines...

3. I think you've already ruled out this one.

4. I think a builder-phase will be in order at some point, but I'm not convinced that now is the time, what with sunrise bearing a grudge after the worker-steal, and the Lins being pretty hostile, too.

[Krill]

I'm going to have to be wary of Shadyforce, that guys thoughts are a little to close to my own for comfort.

Hi guys,

Just trying to remember what everyone else wanted to research as the next set of techs, and floating a possible tech idea (which I think has been mooted before).

I'd like to research Construction next, and have an eta before t100, but we also have other important techs, such as Currency, Calendar and CoL to research. Would some people be willing to research Currency first, and then feed gold to the fastest or most efficient researcher so that we can get techs asap, one after another, instead of all techs slower, but around the same time? I know I would. We'd need to agree to share all techs evenly between ourselves for this to work, but it does maximise our usage of each tech, ie getting plantations up for more happiness first, then CoL for courthouses afterwards etc.

I think Shadyforce has said he can get currency before t100 quite easily, which would mean we could start fast research to catch up with the UTA within 15 turns.

So, what are everyones thoughts?

Krill

I have started on poly - have it in 4 turns.

First of all, I'm probably going to go for currency and expect on T96/97. I haven't switched on research yet and when I do, it's 8/9 turns at 100%.

Secondly...

It's not going well so far. We're down Feudalism and Monarchy. And we're about 10 turns behind the UTA for several different techs, including the likes of currency, construction, calendar and maybe CoL as well. And we're losing ground.

Everything indicates that the UTA have 5 good researchers so while we have the numbers, we don't have their combined research ability right now. Since we're obviously not prepared to do any fighting and slow them down militarily, we need to improve our economies and try and catch up. That means all of us. Even the guys who will be providing the money rather than doing the research can't just sit back and give whatever they happen to have lying around while land-grabbing happily without concern for commerce. The 2-4 designated researchers have to match the 5 UTA members for pace, which means lots of money needs to come their way.

I completely agree with Imhotep that the way the game has developed is extremely stupid. In my opinion, it would have been a lot more interesting if tech trading had been switched off (I was out-voted), it would have been a better FFA, rather than a defacto 5v5 with added potential mistrust.

But the game is what it is and we just have to take our frustration out on the UTA five who have turned it into this mess. I don't know about you guys but I don't particularly fancy a boring team tech race until someone launches the space ship. I want to "remove their ability to race". But we've missed the early rush window (we didn't know) and we missed the pre-construction window (we chickened out) and now we're now behind in military technology.

And hey, I'm as guilty as anyone. Maybe I could have arranged a rush on rego with Imhotep's help or something but I got scared that I wouldn't have a big enough stack to do much damage. But I don't get how me and Krill seem to be the only ones with any semblence of a border with them. I don't know what the other part of the landmass is like, but if there are vast grasslands seperating you guys from Kalin and Broker, maybe we should be settling aggresively in that direction to provide a platform to invade from later?

The fact is, we need to make a plan for the future. Plodding along is not going to do much in the long run. We need a plan to focus on. Now I'm no civ expert or veteran or ladder player. So you guys tell me: if you are playing a large 5 or 6 a side multiplayer game where one team are technologically ahead, how do you beat them?

In my newbie opinion, there are two reasonable ways:

1. Research the essential near term economic technologies and then beeline the next significant military technology. Maybe that's Guilds (although they are already a tech and a half ahead of us there) or maybe Rifling. then build a monster army and double/treble team and deal a critical blow to 2 or 3 of the UTA members.
2. Amphibious surprise attack. While it's hard this early because galleys are expensive, it should become more viable as we progress up the tech tree since we'll be loading more expensive units per boat. ZPV is particularly vulnerable to an amphibious assault, Lins also has a viable water route into a back line city and Broker told me his south coast is vulnerable to invasion as well (although not in as many words).

Maybe this was not meant to be like a typical multiplayer game but they seem to have turned it into one with their 5-way alliance and all I know, from hearing about what goes on in these team multiplayer games, is that you don't tech to space... you build and army and you hit the other team at their weakpoints.

I suppose this won't actually come as a suprise to anyone, but I agree with Shadyforce. We do need a complete strategy to deal with the UTA in its an entirety, taking it apart into peices if we have to, instead of hoping it'll fall apart naturally. I'm very willing to go in and attack Kalin, but that is just one player. We need to go and force regoarrarr and ZPV to stop teching, force them to slave out units to defend with. One problem with going the tech route though is that it allows them to stack up and hit whichever one of us they want. Standard MP tactics, they can focus everyones' armies into one spot. I'd suggest we be the first ones to use it though, by hitting regoarrarr or ZPV.

Krill

[Krill]

I'm not that worried about dealing with Kalin, and sunrise, maybe even Kalin, sunrise and Broker, all at once in a war. I can handle that on the defensive without too much trouble. My biggest problem would be if they all hit me after I got dumped out of the anti alliance, because short term, while I could survive, I wouldn't have that much of a chance to grow.

I doubt regoarrarr and ZPV are going to be able to help out in an attack on me, they are just too far away for that to work, and if I can aggitate for an attack on them in the east, then I'll probably be fine. If I could persuade the others to do a 5v1 on regoarrarr, and kill him, then they could end up rolling west around the northern hemisphere wiping out everyone in their path while I push east and we meet somewhere around sunrises lands. That would leave Broker and ZPV around, and me with a load of nice grasslands to expand into. I could end up with an easy 20% of the maps land within my borders.

The galley landing would be workable, and even defendable as I can build triremes to go choke Kalins' port city and stop him working and coastal food res. There looks to be an island that I can nip around the back of to circumvent the LoS from his front city. I also have 4 coastal cities that I can slave galleys out of, so that wouldn't really be the bottle neck. I need an anvil though, to draw his units forward into Hun, so the galley attack would likely just be a good side product of the attack to break Kalin quickly. His capital isn't anything special, so razing that would be a good aim for 8 HA.

[Krill]

What is the feasibility of a couple of us dedicating completely on military (my initial thoughts say Ruff & Imhotep) to create some mischief with the UTA? That way they can save up cash and leave the researching to the rest of us?

- Kodii

[sooooo]

Have both cakes and eat them (including the cake in the bush). Build troops now and negotiate a trade for currency. When that comes in attack, then whip some markets and grow.

[Krill]

That's what it's looking like...I just looked at the distance between regoarrarr and ruff and it is insanely large, but if ruff attacks via shadyforce, then at least shady force will be safe from attack. But if regoarrarr isn't building troops of his own he could get dented fairly badly, and if he is building troops he isn;t expanding, and his tech will suffer. Win win for me

Krill: Hey Shady
Shadyforce: hi
Krill: you able to chat atm?
Shadyforce: yeah, what's up?
6:12 PMKrill: I was just thinking about Kodiis last email
6:13 PM Tactically, ruff and Imho attacking regoarrarr is decent, but they'll be running into axes with melee units
They could do with some HA and chariots
6:14 PM Tactically if you and Ruff attacked from teh south, and then Imhotep came int from the north, there would be much greater chance of success
Shadyforce: rego has plenty of spears, especially because myself and ZPV have mounted UUs
Krill: and you would also have Ruffs reinforcements in your land if ZPV moved against you
ah
Shadyforce: rego has basically a spear/axe pair everywhere
Krill: what about hitting ZPV?
6:15 PM yesh, he has Numids
Shadyforce: rego is #1 in power atm also
Krill: but impis and preats have odds
actually I'm #1 in piower...
Shadyforce: ok, you must have just deposed rego...
he said yesterday he was #1
he's up there anyway
6:16 PMKrill: yeah, he is up there
but he hasn't been number one for a while
Shadyforce: ZPV is less well defended... I don't even know if he has metal
Krill: and when he was it was purely down to tech, and not entirely units
Shadyforce: however it is logistically harder for me to get to him, and it's really far from imho and Ruff
so rego is still the target
Krill: ok
What units are you building to defend with btw?
6:17 PM spears?
Shadyforce: I'm about to settle my second dedicated military city so it's easy for me to churn out a couple of units to help Ruff/Imho
I'm a bit light atm
I have an axe, spear, couple of archers and an immortal floating about
6:18 PMKrill: HA are your best bet, with a few axes and spears. Then eles
ZPV can build numids now
Shadyforce: yeah, maybe a stable and promote the Has to combat1 and shock?
Krill: depends
best leave the promos until needed
6:19 PMShadyforce: well, not promote right away, but C1 and shock would be ok against spears
Krill: but if ZPV attacks, combat 1 and 2, and you will shred his entire stack
C1 and shock is decent again spears
30% odds
Shadyforce: yeah, lots of HAs are all I need for ZPV
Krill: and then shreds axes
Shadyforce: few spears for backup
Krill: yup
6:20 PMShadyforce: tbh, if Ruff anf Imho bring enough units and I help out a bit, it doesn't matter what rego has, he'll surely lose a couple of cities
Krill: yeah
I think he'll be dead
Shadyforce: and ZPV prob won't get to me in time even if he is able and willing to help
Krill: and then you only have 1 neighbour to deal with
Shadyforce: plus dsp can boat ZPV and distract him if needs be
Krill: yup
6:21 PM that's kinda why I'd like you to get a few HA, it means you can help out attacking regoarrarr as well if possible
Shadyforce: Imho is not too far, maybe 20 tiles
Ruff might have to march further...
Krill: but also defend against oppurtunistic attacks from ZPV
Shadyforce: but if he is willing, we should def do it
Krill: but if dsp can boat ZPV...
yeah
Put me in the camp that is all behind an attack
6:22 PM I'll keep Kalin and sunrise busy this side
and Broker, come to that
6:23 PMShadyforce: all three of those are too far away to give rego any military assistance... maybe sunrise could boat over some help, but that's it
Krill: Not short term
Shadyforce: he prob doesn't even have a boat
6:24 PMKrill: but with HA, you never know what's going top happen
regoarrarr has a boat
he used it to get a missionary from sunrise
Shadyforce: oh yeah
he mentioned that alright

[Krill]

Something has to be wrong. This seems way too easy...

Attacking someone is a possiblity, but, IIRC, ZPV is miles away from me. I could send over 5-ish Preats (down thru mh land and then thru Dsp's land) and it that battle army could pick up some support (cats? / Phants) then we (as a team) could really have some fun with it. To be honest, it would take at least 10 turns (prob more like 15) to get my units there.

Ruff

I'm not directly connected to ZPV... there is water between us. You
would need to go through shadyforce's land to get to ZPV.

ZPV's capital is somewhat vulnerable to an over-water attack from me.
Perhaps you could launch a land-based attack and I could launch a
surprise attack on his capital around the same time? I don't think I
can actually do an amphibious assault on the capital with Galleys, but
I think I can drop unload attackers next to it with no warning, which
means he'd only have 1 turn to whip more defenders. Still, this would
probably need at least 3 galleys full of units to work, so I don't
think it can happen too soon.

Daniel

Regoarrarr is much more vulnerable to a NUTA assault. He is just to the north west of my cities. Out culture is just about touching at this stage. If you send your drones to my land, my road network will bring you right up to India's borders. Also, Imhotep is not to far to Rego's north-east and could invade his north so Rego would be in a two front war. I could probably provide some units or at the very least cut off any assistance from Carthage, without compromising my research on the next tech.

So if you send those 5 praets and whatever axes/spears you can spare and you can probably build a few HAs that will have time to catch up with the melee. If you did this, when could you attack him?

[Krill]

I think I'm going to go for something along the lines of 8 cats, 12 WE, as many HA as I can build between now and getting construction. Then hit Kalin as hard as I can and just push straight through him. Once I revolt to HR and get wines hooked up I can double whip all my cities twice without it affecting my growth at all, which is like giving me an extra 12 WE over what I can build normally, and I also have over 1000 hammers in chops to use.

This isn't going to be pretty, but I don't think Kalin can come out of this one alive. I don't even need iron to pull this off, cats will defend well enough against the spears. So now speed is of the essence...