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Meh, if UCiv is okay with OB, let's do it. It helps both of us, which means it helps us twice by giving them more money to give us.
They might get discovered, but really, they were going to get discovered anyways when we got rifles way ahead of schedule.
I'd like to plant the idea in UCiv's mind that they ought to run 100% gold and lend it all to us, but it's hard to come right out and say that.
Perhaps we could add on something like "good thought on the OB, it's obviously good for us because we get faster rifles, and it's doublely good for you - you can lend us more money which means you'll both make more interest and you'll start getting it back sooner."
That might accomplish the same thing without coming off as a demand.
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How many turns would it take for us to get a settler/galley to settle an island just north of UCiv core/mainland? We could get started on this (if we can spare the production time) and then set them up as a cheap espionage techer in recompense for them continuing to fund us. This would mitigate the +cost distance issue and lessen the chance of their spy being caught in WPC land on the way to our city to carry out the mission.
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That's a great idea for after the war, but we can float that idea to UnivCiv right away
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
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Hey now I did seriously think we should add a please in the previous message, as in "please just send..." 
Anyway I see no downside to accepting OB, it's their choice really. And I don't think there's an issue with trading maps, they should be able to fill out more of the world for us. We just gave our map to WPC anyway.
I'll accept the trade when I log in tonight unless there are new objections.
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I'm back, and intend to log in and resume C&D operationers (and help Sunrise with getting the game state). If no one objects, I'll log in and accept in by 22.30 EST.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
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Just ask them up front for 100% gold ASAP. The faster they give us the gold, the faster we'll repay.
On an equally pragmatic note. Getting discovered is not necessarily a bad thing. Another target to spread PolyPlayers' attention around is not bad for us.
In Soviet Russia, Civilization Micros You!
"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."
“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”
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Right, getting discovered is fine for us. Shit, if we get discovered, we might end up selling them discount rifles after our war to repay our debt faster.
But if UCiv gets discovered before we've got all the money, our research pact might get cut short.
If we think it's diplomatically acceptable to ask for them to 100% fund us until we're done rather than some smaller number, then let's do that. We could frame it as a suggestion that helps us both. They both get more interest and start getting said interest sooner.
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Prepare for 3v1 time boys and girls. Chat with Yossarian from CFC.
Chat with CFC Wrote:scooter
And no problem. any update on your team's thoughts on our offer?
YossarianLives
Yeah, we recognized it as a very serious offer and had some back and forth over the weekend. But the end result was the same. Still not enough support to extend the NAP
scooter
hah. so what exactly is enough?
I'm beginning to suspect your interest in a NAP isn't very sincere. 
YossarianLives
No, I think at this point we're not going to be able to extend it at all. It's not that our interest isn't sincere. Well, not for everyone on the team. We just don't think that the NAP is in our interest
The GP was very tempting, though
I'm sorry, I know you've put a lot of time in trying to get this deal to go through
scooter
so how many cities do you think you'll get out of this?
I"ve put myself in your shoes as best I could
I wouldn't have taken the straight NAP til T200, but I would have jumped at the great person
and the only way you don't take that is if you honestly think you can topple us in a war after t175
doesn't take a wizard to do the math :P
YossarianLives
Well, a GP would have been great for us, but you have enough land so that if you can develop peacefully then we lose no matter what. At least, that's what our mathematicians have convinced the team of.
scooter
I mean, you guys clearly see the whipping/drafting happening from our western neighbors
and our total lack of economy, which we can't repair while we draft ourselves silly and give our next great person away
so I don't totally buy that
YossarianLives
Your economy is not lacking, you have the most beakers of anyone
scooter
we've been last in GNP out of the contending teams for well over a dozen turns
while everyone was building courthouses, universities, markets, grocers, we were building knights, elephants, barracks, stables, and drafting maces. so that adds up too
Anyway, if you're being totally sincere, I think your mathematicians haven't been paying close enough attention to the beaker/turn situation over the last 20 turns
YossarianLives
I hear you. But CP can't threaten you now that you have all those units, so if you get a NAP with us, you can build all that missing infra and surge back up in GNP while handily defeating your western neighbor
scooter
CP can't by itself, but Apolyton's 20-30 Rifles they have right now sure can, and you know that
you DO know that right?? 
Anyway, I'm not trying to be overly confrontational, but here's how this process has gone internally for our team
you guys made no offers repeatedly. we finally made multiple offers, you said flat no and refused to counter. every time we come back with a new suggestion you take awhile to talk about it, say no, make no suggestion at what sounds good to you. So to some people on my team - they interpret that as you're just screwing with me. I try to assume the best, but I imagine you can see how things would build
Plus I have been aware for awhile that you, apolyton, and civplayers all agreed together to not extend the NAP with us. The details are hazy, but I know that deal existed. So it makes us suspect you had no interest in actually doing so, and were just fishing
YossarianLives
I hear what you're saying. I really do hope you're not mad on a personal level. I have to represent what is best for my team in these dealings. I want to try to be as honest as possible without showing all our cards. There have been voices on both sides of the debate. None of our decisions on how to proceed with your team have been unanimous.
scooter
Personal, no, you've been totally fine of course. There is a growing suspicion though that Team CFC is choosing to not be totally level with Team RB, which is what I was explaining
YossarianLives
In all sincerity, if you have to leave your border with us lightly defended to deal with your other neighbors, we want that opportunity to make a move. If we can tie up a significant number of troops on our end to let your neighbors make some ground against you, that works out in our favor, too
Yes, I understand that feeling
Or that suspicion, rather
scooter
Well sure, that's your decision to make. But you're selling it purely as opportunism right now, and if a real full blown 3v1 happens, that's an outright lie. And I think we have a lot of reason to be skeptical that you're serious about opportunism when you're clearly headed for cannons
Anyway. If a real concerted 3v1 happens, we'll hold your team responsible for orchestrating it. Not extending the NAP for the purpose of tying down units is a valid strategic choice, even if I think it's the wrong one . But if you guys aren't being honest, that's different from our teams perspective
YossarianLives
Ok, I understand what you're saying. Well, we do need to hold some cards close to our chest, so I don't know how much more I can say
Anyways, I have to walk the dog, so I should get going
Walk the dog? OF COURSE YOU GOTTA WALK THE DOG BEFORE THE DOGPILE.
Someone meme this thing in the rant thread now.
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(August 5th, 2013, 21:02)scooter Wrote: Walk the dog? OF COURSE YOU GOTTA WALK THE DOG BEFORE THE DOGPILE.
Someone make this QOTM now
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
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