Diplomacy Correspondence Tracking thread

[scooter]

Sent to Apolyton and CivPlayers:

Apolyton and CivPlayers,

I'm sending this to both of your teams since it has been clear for awhile that you are working closely together. I understand the position you guys are in. You don't want to commit to peace with us, but you don't want to leave us alone to tech peacefully. That's completely fair. However, I think you guys are smart enough to know that a full war with us will just be a stalemate. I'm just going to be 100% honest with you guys: we are tracking your builds very closely, and we basically know what you guys have and what you might attack us with. We know it's enough to do some damage, but we also know we will be able to stop it before you guys gain too much. We've even done some simming on killing different stack compositions. Needless to say, our warmongery members are a little too eager about the idea of killing off a dogpile . Regardless, I think the only winner in this conflict would be CFC, and I don't think you guys want that any more than we do.

So I have one last idea for a peaceful compromise:
* NAP until T230 between all 3 of us
* RB will be generating two great persons in the next 15 turns. We will gift you each one of them. You guys can decide between yourself who gets which one.

This is the absolute best offer we can make. It's actually a little too much in my opinion (there is quite a bit of disagreement within our team over this), but our team has decided to offer it. I'd remind you that when it comes to keeping pace with us, this is basically denying us a golden age. If you don't take this, we'll be using this for a golden age at a very decisive time. If you take this, we'll be passing up on that, and our economic recovery will be slowed down considerably. We've also invested heavily in military to defend against both of you rather than building economic things, so you would have accomplished your goals of slowing us down, not to mention the bonus you both would get from a great person.

I would also ask that you please let us know your answer pretty quickly. This offer will have to expire as soon as the turn rolls to T170.

Thanks!
scooter - Team RB

[Ruff_Hi]

reply ...

Team RB, Scooter

I'm afraid it's too late for peace at this moment, it is since we saw how easily you conquered inca's land.. you got it almost for free, getting every city while inca used their army against wpc, who got 0 cities, then we saw cfc getting into war with maya... so we came into the conclusion that war is inevitable and that we should not waste time or else we will have even less chance to slow you down.
We have no illusions that this will be an easy war for us, right now our hope is that we can make this war more costly for you than it will be for us, but even this is not guaranteed.
So we are looking forward to have a little "fun".

mz

[Ruff_Hi]

Question from UCiv ...

Nice! Deal!

Could you please give us a rough estimate of when you expect to reach Rifle? That would help us planify our development.

Yuufo

[scooter]

Sent to UCiv:

Yuufo,

We are estimating that with your help, we can get Rifling on roughly T181-T182, give or take a turn.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

Sent to Apolyton:

Apolyton,

Ok, let's have some fun then.
I hope you realize soon that this is not productive for either of us. Let me know when you're ready to start catching up with the new leaders instead, and we'll be happy to talk.

Best regards,
scooter - RB

[Lord Parkin]

From UCiv:

Today we gave you 800 Gold.

[scooter]

Sent to CivFr:

CivFr,

We are about to get declared on by Apolyton and CivPlayers (NAP expires t170). Our CFC NAP expires on t175. While we've painfully converted enough population into military to deal with Apolyton and CivPlayers (hopefully only losing 2 or 3 cities), we won't have enough left over to stop CFC from taking a sizable chunk of our land should they move in five turns later. Given CFC will probably win the game if they claim our land on top of Spain's, we were hoping you would be willing to help us in two ways:

1) Can you loan us 200 gold? If you do this, we will give you back 300 gold by T190 at the absolute latest.
2) Refrain from making peace or signing a NAP with CFC. If they are forced to defend their border with you, its possible we can scrape enough units together to slow them down, though defending our Globe Theater seems impossible in any case =[

You guys don't owe us anything, so I will completely understand if you just ignore this and do your own thing. If you do decide to help us, we will do everything in our power to help you in the future, even if it costs us. We would like to win of course, but more important to us is that CFC does not win, as we feel their dealings with us have been dishonest. I would like to think we both feel the same on that last point.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

Sent to UCiv:

Awesome, thanks guys! I see you are getting around 520gpt right now. Is that normal for you? We are trying to better estimate how quickly we can get Rifling. If you are able to supply us with that much gold every turn, we can shave several turns off the estimated Rifling completion date. smile

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

[scooter]

Sent to WPC:

Tatu/Beta,

Any updates on the espionage/resource stuff? There are a few teams especially who are interested in the espionage agreement, but will only sign on if your team also agrees.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

[scooter]

OT4E of CivPlayers poked me for a brief chat:

OT4E
hi Scooter

scooter
hey

OT4E
probably you are not waiting for our reply

scooter
yeah we're not, apolyton replied and pretty much answered for both of you

OT4E
but anyway your offer is nice, but we cant accept it may be later we will be able to return to this talks

scooter
Yeah I figured. I am sort of surprised, I honestly think I would have taken it if I were in your shoes. But if you have previous agreements in the way, nothing we can do about that.
you guys are obviously well coordinated, so good job on that. you got MilTrad and then a ton of gold gifted to upgrade to Cuirs
I think enough for what, 15-20ish? That should be fun

OT4E
nothing can be hidden for long
seems that you have found good friends too

scooter
I'm just glad *someone* out there doesn't hate us. haha
so I have to ask. was this whole thing CFC's idea? or is that just spectacularly lucky for them?
well "hate" is too strong of a word, but someone that isn't aiming to see us die

OT4E
no I dont think there is much blame of CFC

scooter
Anyway, I would wish you guys good luck, but I'd prefer that your luck isn't so good . And of course, let me know if you reach a point where you're not interested in further conflict, and I'd be happy to chat again and see what we can work out

OT4E
I am still sure in positive result for you, so there is no place for "hate" imho, just a good game. When you finally win you'd probably confirm that it wasnt that easy
too easy to be dull
I mean this

scooter
You've certainly made the game exciting, that's for sure.
not that it wasn't already, but especially so

OT4E
1 more thing
hope you understand that you must bring both WPC and UCIV into our agreement about changing civics
if you dont want to become burocratical when you get rifling

scooter
yeah... WPC isn't answering emails right now, I'll try to push them about it again. I should be able to bring UCiv in though, yes.

OT4E
I also can only promise about ourselves
CFC is against and I am worrying about it too

scooter
I think they would be the only ones against
but they definitely would not accept
I am thinking though
if we get everyone to agree, we might be able to pressure CFC into agreeing that way. Not sure

OT4E
how did the pre-start vote about this finish?
only CFC blocked this?

scooter
I think a couple random teams just voted "all espionage" without really understanding what they were voting for

OT4E
ah may be we voted for this too

scooter
because apolyton for instance voted for allowing these missions, then this agreement was their idea, hah

Quick notes:
1) Making sure the bridge does not burn as best as I can.
2) He reminded of the EP agreement stuff. I missed sending the poke to WPC previously, so I went ahead and sent it (messsage in tracking thread). I'm going to draft up a UCiv message about it in just a minute.
3) They know about UCiv gifting gold.
4) Every time I talk to UCiv and Apolyton they don't deny working closely together, but they do deny being close with CFC. Just take that for what it's worth: not a lot, but it's something to keep in mind. I just get the feeling the western two are committed to working together, and CFC is committed only to helping themselves. I tend to think this is the best angle to eventually break this thing up when the war gets going.

[scooter]

Sent to UCiv:

Yuufo,

Hey, idea for you guys to consider. Apolyton proposed an multi-nation agreement about EP missions. Here is the proposal:

* All teams that sign the agreement promise to never use civic or religion swap spy missions on any other team that signs the agreement for the remainder of the game, regardless of whether you are at war or peace with those teams.

Currently agreed is Realms Beyond and Apolyton. We're also asking WPC and CP at the moment, and think they'll be on board. Are you interested in agreeing to not use those two spy missions? We feel they are not very fair missions, but since they are not banned, we figure we can use diplomacy to remove them. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

[scooter]

Quick chat with CivPlayers:

scooter
I'm assuming you and apolyton are taking the first half? for some reason we can still log in  

OT4E
yes,
no idea why you can

scooter
I guess the locking in/out will start when you guys end turn? not sure
Anyway, we're waiting to move anything until you guys both end turn

OT4E
thank you