[SPOILERS] Team Unpronounceable Unicode Symbol: True Grit

[Halvgud]

Made another mistake. Moved Northern army away from Yellow city instead of against Yellow city, not at the moment giving a military incentive for Yellow to sue for peace.

[NobleHelium]

I did get a pm from Hal yest morning. among other things, he said the wandering army is intended to make blue break off the attack. giving him the benefit of the doubt, I think Halvgod is maybe just outclassed here?

Hal, I just wish you had reported better so I could have helped before some of these decisions were made.

If the wandering army was to obtain peace, why did you reject the peace offers from your opponents?

[Lewwyn]

Lewwyn is there a consensus you're speaking from?

Just to clarify from what Noble has said about the consensus that Hal was trolling the game, this was not just the lurkers, but also specifically from the players who are disgruntled with what appears to be Hal throwing the game, or at least unbalancing it so completely that it is no longer fun. Case in point, rather than capture the Colossus, Suttree razed it in order try and keep some level of fairness and tactical fun and he is the one most benefiting.

Hal, this is a greenie game and a learning experience, but leaving cities empty and putting workers on the border of a hostile civ is akin to cheese gifting. Please learn from these mistakes because some believe them to be intentionally trolling.

[Halvgud]

If the wandering army was to obtain peace, why did you reject the peace offers from your opponents?

Your question made me realize something. I've sent a pm to Ceil, if he does not reply within 9h, I'll write a longer reply to you here.

[Halvgud]

Got a reply from Ceil, but due to RL stuff I have to make a reply in 6h.

[Halvgud]

Writing on a reply now, may take some time to finish.

[Merovech]

Are you going to post these PMs, or edited ones?

[Halvgud]

NobleHelium put a question forward that made me think. "Why did I not accept peace?"

There was a peace offer before, where I gave a counter proposal. That included for peace that he gift the culture bomb city to me. There was no peace, therefore a denial of that. But then it hit me that I had recieved at least two other peace offers later, which I declined without thought. Why no thought? Why did I not even consider peace? My large stack was then on the way south, to threaten his home territory. I had a wish to inflict hurt on him as he had inflicted hurt on me. But, I had left myself open to that hurt. I had moved defenders away. Why? Then the singular event came to me. At the beginning, here:



The red circle was where I had a worker standing, and that worker disappeared along with a chariot from Blue player. He had gone in and disbanded a worker and subsequently disbanded his own chariot. Something I had not encountered before, being green at this type of game. I had already lost a worker before his culture bomb to his bear grylls warrior unit, but that unit had not been deleted and I considered that fair game. But a hit-and-run that denied me even the xp of defeating the unit I felt was a really, really jerk move. I have learned from sources today that this is acceptable behaviour in these kinds of MP, and had I stopped to think, to ask for some help in the thread, much could have been avoided. Instead, encountering this behaviour in Civ4, a game that I play for fun and to relieve stress, in what amounted to the most crappy week I have had all year, I reacted as a jerk in return.

I got the fix idea that xp should be denied at every turn. So with an army on the way, I moved away from cities I considered to be dead already, Blue having a larger army, I created a large stack that would take a lot to get rid of, moving it south. It was both to make whatever happened close to home be more removed/irrelevant, and to move Blue players attention to where I made it turn.

At the time, I logged in, moved around, logged out without the usual screencaps, didn't post in the thread. I saw that his army to the west was going for my largest income holy city, and I had a GP only a few turns away and the bulk of my army going towards his culture bomb city. Checking the movement, I would not reach that city in time. Again, I thought of denying xp foremost, moving the actual defender units away, but not fast enough, he managed to get one small stack of axe, spear, spear I think it was. The turn that he was about to hit my HC, I was last to move. I was dimly aware of the double-move rule now, but I had just gained a Great Prophet, exactly what I would have wished to get since that was a key holy city. So I settled it, to see what Blue would do. He took the city, saying nothing. I believe by this time he had razed Biquintile, and I went ahead with a pain game thinking that he was a jerk, a double jerk even. Again, I could have made some plea for help, but I was stubborn, wanting to do this my way, to be able to do it and make it work without outside help.

It was here I think he made his second peace offering that I refused. Then followed some dim turns where the main game was to move the large stack south and whip units in my other cities. Blue killed my copper resource limiting my army potential. I had before the war been on my way west with a settler. I sent that settler to a coast city to get away from Blue by way of a galley and sent a spear along with it. Then many things happened, Yellow player sniped the coast city right after I moved the settler and spear into the galley and went off. I set it to reach the closest Island and settle there.

At this point, some double move regarding the Green player was noted, and I responded to that. From there, the ball started rolling. When the other team made a public troll post, I was wondering what that was about. When I read in this thread from Lewwyn and NobleHelium that a concensus considered me to troll and play bad pieces began coming together, and I reacted to it, trying to explain myself without being really aware of how I had acted. It was the direct NobleHelium question at the beginning of this reply that made me really aware of my own actions.

I have to say that I feel like an asshole for doing what I did. I accept full responsibility for what I have done, and I really feel bad that my bad play has affected others, possibly ruining the entire gaming experience for them. I am sorry everyone. I thought about leaving the game, seeing as the other players may view me as a loose cannon and untrustworthy, further alienating them towards me. But I have a real reason to stay, and that is to be able to learn from this and play my best with what I have available of resources. I do not consider myself the kind of person that would willfully endanger and ruin the gaming experience for other people, expecially here in this environment. Now that this has happened, I fully intend to learn from it. To always report. To always ask. When in doubt - step back and get a second opinion from dedlurker. If this was not ingrained before, it sure as hell is now. But at what cost.

If it helps, I could post this publicly, or just "I've been an asshole and feel sorry about the hurt this has done to the other players." I would like lurker feedback to this, and what you think my best course of action is in this. If the majority feel that it is best that I retire from this game, I will of course do so.

I would like to thank Ceiliazul for his attempts at guiding me, and if you guys want me to continue to sub I will do my best to follow his advice to better learn how to play properly (provided he's still interested in helping of course).

[Halvgud]

For those who wonder what went on between me and Ceil, this is the pm I sent:

August 27th, 2013, 15:13, to Ceiliazul:

No need to be too hard on yourself. Blue does good work with outmaneuvering me. I learn. The large army to the south had one object, to make him disengage before he squashed me entirely. It has worked, but with the Orange attacking from the North, it does appear rather dim.

Don't know if you saw it or not, but I whipped one settler and made it journey to the white area northeast. Considering it named "last stand" at the moment.

(no reply to this by pm)

August 29th, 2013, 14:37, to Ceiliazul:

Hi, I sent you an email but something about my own email makes me uncertain if you recieved it yesterday. Here is the mail I sent you. Bear in mind, one of the other lurkers posed a question that made me consider things in a new light. If I don't get a response from you within the next 9h, I'll make a longer reply to him about that in the Sisu Spoiler thread. Will state in thread that I wait for a reply from you and if no reply is forthcoming, I'll respond to him after the stated 9h.

Hi Ceiliazul.

I am getting a sense of hostility from the other players. I have apparently been acting in a way that make them believe I am trolling/breaking the game? When what I have done is -in hindsight- a series of unfortunate events.

I can accept that with more active reports/screencaps and asking for advice/assistance, moves I made could have been avoided. I find it sad if my actions have ruined the fun in the game for other players. That was truly not my intention. That in mind, do you think it best for all parties if I post a public apology and withdraw from the game?

...

Gamewise, the quickest way to get the southern army back is seeking peace with Blue. That done, peace with Yellow could be attempted with army close to the 5pop city north, since a unit scouting revealed it to be less defended than the one city that he took. Peace aquired with both parties, it would then be a point of sharing out the remaining army across the cities left, with some moved by boat to the Standing city near White territory. Then continue from that point.

Among the errors I made, I settled a GP in the holy city, basically delivering a goldmine of faith to Blue. There is more to that specific, but can address that later if neccessary.

Since you are at work, I don't know when you are able to respond. Shall we try talking later today?

-Halvgud

Also, the above mail was written in a different mindset. I would like to talk to you about this if possible.

August 29th, 2013, 15:08, reply from Ceiliazul:

hey halvgod, just got this. I think the game will go on successfully after you are gone, and if you were honestly doing your best then you shouldn't worry too much about it. most of the longtime players here started as teammates or dedlurkers before they jumped in solo. I encourage you to do the same. if you had fun, then please stick around.

I have no reason to doubt that you were doing your best. if that's the case, then you have nothing to apologize for.

[Ceiliazul]

Wow Hal, those are some wild assumptions about denying benefits to your opponent there... i dont think your 'dodge and strike deep' plan had any chance of success. I'm not sure how to respond to any of that.

For the record, I definitely haven't seen any 'jerk moves' from suttree at all.