[SPOILERS] Margarita and the Lurkers

[Maga_R]

Score increases T20:

1. Orgynized: 41 -> 46
2. Care Bears: will get score increase next turn
3. Master and Margarita: 35 -> 41
4. Yossadorn: 35 -> 42
5. Eagles & Condors: 38 -> 43
6. Dinosaurs: 38 -> 44
7. BowsAi: 41 -> 48
8. EggHeads: 38 -> 49
9. Gladiator's Glory: 35 -> 42
10. Cannibals: 41 -> 47

* Looks like Eggheads build a warrior

Inferred land tiles in the capitol

1. Orgynized: 6
2. Care Bears: will get score increase 8 next turn
3. Master and Margarita: 7
4. Yossadorn: 8
5. Eagles & Condors: 6
6. Dinosaurs: 7
7. BowsAi: 8
8. EggHeads: 6 (+ new tech)
9. Gladiator's Glory: 8
10. Cannibals: 7

Our predictions:

Land tiles in the capitol:

Orgynized 6
Dinosaurs 7
Master and Margarita (us) 7
Blame Caledorn 8*
Eagles & Condors 6
Care Bears not settled yet
BowsAi 8*
EggHeads 6
Gladiator's Glory 8*
Cannibal Ponies 7

* lack of screenies, but fortunately easy to guess anyway

WOW, got all of them correctly - even missing 2 screenies .

[Maga_R]

Turn 22 demo update

Technology overview:

1. Orgynized: Fishing + Agriculture, Hunting (T7), Animal Husbandry (T16), Mining (T22 )
2. Care Bears: Mysticism + Mining, Agriculture (T10)
3. Master and Margarita: Agriculture + Wheel, Fishing (T12)
4. Yossadorn: Agriculture + Mysticism, Mining (T8 )
5. Eagles & Condors: Fishing + Agriculture, Animal Husbandry (T14), Mining (T21)
6. Dinosaurs: Fishing + Mining, Agriculture (T10)
7. BowsAi: Agriculture + Hunting, Animal Husbandry (T12), Mining (T19)
8. EggHeads: Mysticism + Wheel, Hunting (T7), Animal Husbandry(T20)
9. Gladiator's Glory: Fishing + Mining, Agriculture (T18)
10. Cannibals: Agriculture + Wheel, Hunting (T6), Animal Husbandry (T17)

City sizes:

1. Orgynized: 2 (T22)
2. Care Bears: 2 (T19)
3. Master and Margarita: 1
4. Yossadorn: 2 (T21)
5. Eagles & Condors: 3 (T22)
6. Dinosaurs: 2 (T12)
7. BowsAi: 2 (T21)
8. EggHeads: 2 (T19)
9. Gladiator's Glory: 2 (T22)
10. Cannibals: 2 (T22)

Hmm, I am the only one still at size 1.

[Maga_R]

Turn 23 demo update

Technology overview:

1. Orgynized: Fishing + Agriculture, Hunting (T7), Animal Husbandry (T16), Mining (T22 )
2. Care Bears: Mysticism + Mining, Agriculture (T10), Bronze Working (T23)
3. Margarita: Agriculture + Wheel, Fishing (T12), Mining (T23)
4. Yossadorn: Agriculture + Mysticism, Mining (T8 )
5. Eagles & Condors: Fishing + Agriculture, Animal Husbandry (T14), Mining (T21)
6. Dinosaurs: Fishing + Mining, Agriculture (T10)
7. BowsAi: Agriculture + Hunting, Animal Husbandry (T12), Mining (T19)
8. EggHeads: Mysticism + Wheel, Hunting (T7), Animal Husbandry(T20)
9. Gladiator's Glory: Fishing + Mining, Agriculture (T18)
10. Cannibals: Agriculture + Wheel, Hunting (T6), Animal Husbandry (T17)

City sizes:

1. Orgynized: 2 (T22)
2. Care Bears: 2 (T19) -> 3 (T23)
3. Margarita: 2(T23)
4. Yossadorn: 2 (T21)
5. Eagles & Condors: 2 (T18) -> 3 (T22)
6. Dinosaurs: 2 (T12)
7. BowsAi: 2 (T21)
8. EggHeads: 2 (T19)
9. Gladiator's Glory: 2 (T22)
10. Cannibals: 2 (T22)

Yuufo revolted to slavery this turn and built warrior T21

[Ichabod]

Is Jovan a real person or just a roleplay character?

[Maga_R]

Is Jovan a real person or just a roleplay character?

LOL, I did not make Jovan up. Why are you asking? I do not think Jovan ever read this thread, but he did contribute a lot through emails to me - he pointed out an excellent city #2 location, which I am going to use, and I am also going with the micro plan he suggested, with slight modifications - settler at size 4, instead of size 3, as Jovan suggested. Jovan told me from the beginning that he will only be interested in giving occasional tips and that what he has been doing, for which I am very grateful, especially that his tips are of such good quality.

But yeah, this team has been from the beginning kind of one woman show and is officially that now. So if anybody has some questions , tips or comments or just want to indicate, as you did, that somebody is still reading my notes, please step up. If there is any interest, I will post my micro and other plans.

[Ichabod]

I thought Jovan might be a character from the book (which I haven't read yet, though I own it) and I was missing the joke or something. And it seems like you like roleplaying and stories.

I'm sparsely reading some of the threads here, though I can't say I'm really up to what you or others are planning. I think there's always interest for what the players are planning, but C&D stuff and micro plans might be a bit to heavy for a casual reading. So, I guess posting some pictures and saying: "city X will go here", "worker Y will go there" may be a bit more lurker-friendly.

I don't think I can offer too much advice, since I'm already spoiled. But here's a question: your second city is still planned to be on the plains hill 2S of the NW cows? I think it's a nice place, considering the shared resources, but I also think it's a bit too far from your Capital (considering the turns you need to make a settler or worker get there - and how are you going to protect the worker and settler?). For instance, a city 1S of the NE corn would take 2 turns less to settle and you could go from the cows to the corn with the worker, which is way faster.

I'll avoid reading other teams threads from now on, so that maybe after a while I can help a bit more. Though I don't think some of the other teams would ever agree with this...

[Ichabod]

Well, I just read/skimmed through the thread and I'm a bit more familiarized with the situation. I wonder if there's a problem if I start ded-lurking from now on. Any problem for you, Maga? But, more importantly, would that be a problem for the other players in the game? Guess I have to consult plako and ask for instructions regarding what to do. I know that's not the appropriate time to be doing that, but I think its unfair if you end up without a more experienced ded-lurker after just one month in the game, when the whole point of the game was to match a new player with a veteran.

I already have some advice to give, but I think it's better to wait for your and plako's opinions.

[plako]

Well, I just read/skimmed through the thread and I'm a bit more familiarized with the situation. I wonder if there's a problem if I start ded-lurking from now on. Any problem for you, Maga? But, more importantly, would that be a problem for the other players in the game? Guess I have to consult plako and ask for instructions regarding what to do. I know that's not the appropriate time to be doing that, but I think its unfair if you end up without a more experienced ded-lurker after just one month in the game, when the whole point of the game was to match a new player with a veteran.

I already have some advice to give, but I think it's better to wait for your and plako's opinions.

You better ask from other players and present your spoilerism status. If no one objects, go ahead.

[Ichabod]

So, let's give this thread some pictures and get some discussion going.

First of all, I got prompted to select tech and what to produce in the Capital. I selected BW and warrior as placeholders. I'm not sure what's your micro plan, Maga, so please change those accordingly (though I think warrior and BW are probably the best choices, at least in my opinion). Everything else is unchanged, apart from the EP spending, that I changed to suttree (I'll explain below why I did it).




Here's our Capital, Shady Quarters (what's our naming scheme, by the way?). It's size 2, while there's quite a bit of size 3 cities, according to the best cities screen. We got to grow our little Capital. The WB just finished will surely help. I guess the plan is growing to 4 and get a Settler working fish, corn, cow and mine. I wonder if whipping this settler is a good idea - I think it can work if we settle a quick city to share the cows. But, well, let's not get ahead of ourselvess.




Here's our scout. He's far away from home! What are your plans for the scout, Maga?




I changed the EPs to suttree because we already have graphs on Team Orgynized, but not on our direct neighbours. It's easy to forget to change EPs, so i went ahead with the change. If you disagree, please, change back.




Overview of the lands near our Capital. We lack good scouting of our neighborhood, so I can only see 2 good city spots right now.




This is the spot that, as far as I know, will be settled (the plains hill). I'll post some analysis below as to why I think settling on this other spot is better:




Settling on the hill is faster, because the corn can be improved right away. But settling 1S of it is also possible, if we can share the cows. The advantage would be not disallowing any of the coastal cities above. Though, take into account that settling the hill can't orphan any seafood, due to the land we have avaiable.




Settling the gold soon is certainly desirable. 1 more happy is a very good early boost, so as the commerce. But we need to find food for it before settling. Going blind with the settler is probably not the best course of action.

---

Anyway, here's the post I made yesterday that I was saving for after I got permission to help:

Offering advice from what I can see on this thread only, I think you should rethink where you want to settle your next city, especially if you are thinking of moving the settler with an escort. If you road to that hill 1S of the northeast corn, you can settle the city on the turn the settler is produced (if you also road the hill - unlikely and probably not worth it) or 1 turn after that (only road until one of the forests). Even with no roading whatsoever, it'll only take 2 turns.

Even if you decide to get the city on the plains hill to the west, I think you don't need to road to it, because I believe (better check this) that you'll get a TR without any roads, only because you have fishing (or at least you'll get it when the second city pops its borders, which will make all that roading a big investment only worth 5 commerce).

And I think you need a way to improve the scouting around the Capital. The third ring border pop of the Capital will be a blessing, but not enough. Backtracking the scout can be a good choice, even if it ends up dying in the way. For instance, if we had scouted a good food tile near the gold, settling it could be preferable over the other 2 spots.

I think that's quite a bit to discuss. I'll wait to hear back from you before discussing other things.

[Maga_R]

Hi Ichabod, thank you for logging in and taking screenshots .

Micro plan is to settle Jovan's city T42 (T43 if we are unlucky), then city near gold (hopefully finding a food resource nearby), then 1 NW (not NE) of the corn.

My reasons are that Jovan's city - although farther than Corn - will have two overlapping, improved food resources and as such could be bring up to speed in no time. It will be settled on a plain hill and will soon become nice production and commerce center. On my way there- settler will be always escorted out of borders - I will scout around corn, hopefully finding a seafood resource. Worker will be a cottage waiting for a settler, thus pottery. And I will start to build Great Wall in Jovan's city right away - I know it is somewhat crazy but will save us a ton of hammers and hassle with barbarian defense. And even without chopping or whipping, we finish it T66, although I would likely chop to build it even faster. Great will also give us an early Great Spy, which is awesome, especially that espionage is only a bit nerfed in this game . I also want espionage the way it is, we have NAP with Native Americans until T100, so I am not particularly interested in their graphs. On the other hand, I am extremely interested in Lord Parkin's research - not only him being apparently the most dangerous opponent and a very good and experienced player, but also the only IND civ on the map.

Tech plan is Pottery -> Masonry (needed for hamman & GW) -> writing -> Mathematics - > Bronze Working

Based on Eggheads informations, our Eastern neighbors (not met yet) are Yuufo and Bisons, hopefully we will get a NAP form them and will not need BW early. Both capitol and cities #2 and #2 will not benefit form whipping much.

So basically the plan is to unlock our awesome UB - Hamman - asap . I was not expected horses on the map, since we are so close to each other and there are no natural barriers against rushes. But since Orgynized had horses 5 tiles away from capitol, we likely have them close, too. so it can be handy for barbarian defense or further scouting.

Scouting plan has been somewhat crazy, too - to meet as many civs as possible early on, both for known tech bonus - which is considerable - and for better understanding of geopolitics and alliance chances. So far it has not been working badly, we have been already getting +1 beaker form it on AH, and the scoutess should be back in time to help with settler's escort and then would scout around our capitol, looking for good city locations. If still alive afterwards, she will go North to trace the coast of the Northern "Big Water" and meet civs in the Northern hemisphere that are probably about 20 tiles from our capitol (horizontal distances are around 14 tiles).

In terms of our Western neigbors, the good news it is not and Aggresive Rome. Potential problem is that Yuufo moved - most likely 2 tiles - before settling. Hopefully not in our direction. Anyway, he is IMP, so there maybe competition for the land earlier than with other neighbors.